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OT: MLB Thread

Oops, thanks for the clarification WeHave. I guess as a true Anglo-Montrealer I have no knowledge of the city outside of downtown and my own neighbourhood (in fact I think I set foot in Griffintown for the first time this year) :/

The Children's Hospital would be an awesome location but they'd have to tear down a whole lot of buildings to make that happen.
 
Michel Laprise ‏
En préparation d'un top-10 sur les @Montreal_Expos et j'ai des frissons. J'aimerais que mes enfants vivent le baseball comme je l'ai vécu.
 
Hoiles said:
Oops, thanks for the clarification WeHave. I guess as a true Anglo-Montrealer I have no knowledge of the city outside of downtown and my own neighbourhood (in fact I think I set foot in Griffintown for the first time this year) :/

The Children's Hospital would be an awesome location but they'd have to tear down a whole lot of buildings to make that happen.
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Griffintown was actually where all the Irish immigrants settled beginning in the late 19th century. A lot of the workers who helped build the Victoria Bridge lived there and in nearby Goose Village.

I was surprised by the Childrens' Hospital location myself. I never thought such a built-up area would be feasable because, as you say, a lot of buildings have to come down. And what about the hospital itself? Is it closing or moving?

The Peel Basin site is under-developed so there won't be much demolition to do. Their biggest problem will be soil contamination once they start digging. I recall hearing stuff about a site just south of Chinatown near the Palais de Congres but that site wasn't mentioned in the study released yesterday.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
It's not the Champlain Bridge you see in the background over the outfield bleachers; it's the Jaques Cartier.

I'm also wondering about transit. Maybe there's some sort of light rail deal in the works - a spur line from one of the Metro stations on the green or orange lines. I don't like locations that rely on buses only because surface roads get clogged on game days. But since the best location (the one proposed years ago before the Expos left town) is no longer available The two locations near the water are probably the next best.

I downloaded the feasibility study and they actually looked at a few sites. One is the foot of Peel street, another at the Wellington Basin just to the west of the first spot, and another by the Childrens' Hospital that would incorporate the old Forum as part of the complex. Those sites are considered the most viable because having the stadium downtown is seen as essential to making the project attractive to potential investors. They also considered the Big O (or at least building a proper stadium there after bulldozing the current one) and the Blue Bonnets site (L'Hippodrome, for those of you too young to remember BB) But those locations are seen as too far from downtown to be viable, even though they have space for parking and are both served by Metro stations.
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I know it can't be easy or economical to find a location in the heart of downtown but of all cities who try to lure back their old pro team I would think Montreal remembers that people do not like going too far out of their way to get to the location. People working in downtown office building aren't likely to skip work and take in a game if it involves a public transit headache to get to the ballpark. The infrastructure around the stadium would also have to be trendy with pubs, restuarants and other entertainment venues able to create a happening place.
 
TheCountofMonteCristo said:
I asked Melnick re the hospital the same question Wehave. He said they are moving it to a superhospital near Vendome Metro.
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The only hospital I know of near Vendome Metro is the Queen Elizabeth and there was nothing "super" about it the last time I went to visit someone there (albeit many moons ago) Super-dingy and poorly-lit in the corridors but that's it.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
The only hospital I know of near Vendome Metro is the Queen Elizabeth and there was nothing "super" about it the last time I went to visit someone there (albeit many moons ago) Super-dingy and poorly-lit in the corridors but that's it.
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Yes they are building a "super" hospital in the old rail yards.
 
Lotusland said:
I know it can't be easy or economical to find a location in the heart of downtown but of all cities who try to lure back their old pro team I would think Montreal remembers that people do not like going too far out of their way to get to the location. People working in downtown office building aren't likely to skip work and take in a game if it involves a public transit headache to get to the ballpark. The infrastructure around the stadium would also have to be trendy with pubs, restuarants and other entertainment venues able to create a happening place.
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It's a chicken/egg thing to a certain extent. There wasn't much in the way of pubs and restaurants in the vicinity of Safeco Field when it was first built but they sprang up soon enough after it opened. The same would happen at the bottom end of Peel Street if a new park went in. All down Peel Street from St. Antoine down to the park would become a new entertainment corridor.

And while being close to transit (preferably a Metro station) is important, it's also important that there be parking available as well because the new team owners will be relying not just on locals but also on people who live off-island or out of town. You'll get lots of people from upstate New York, Vermont and the Ottawa Valley/Eastern Ontario coming in for weekend games against the Jays, Yankees and Red Sox.

The study compared Montreal a lot to Minneapolis which has a similar population base and has similar weather. Target Field seats around 40,000, is downtown close to highways and transit and has seen the surrounding neighbourhood revitalized. And despite the climate and the lack of a retractable roof (which used to be seen as essential) they've only had 8 games rained or snowed out in 4 years (2 per season on average and never more than 3 in one season) The loss of revenue on 2 or 3 games a season that get rained out is minuscule compared to the added cost of a roof. Besides, Montrealers haven't had much luck with retractable roofs. They tend to be super-expensive, require a lot of upkeep, and inevitably break down. The Cromartie group is looking at a baseball-only, open-air stadium with a capacity of around 36,000 plus luxury suites, all the modern ballpark amenities and a natural grass field.

The report said that the team payroll for this model would be "modest but competitive" and that the team itself would have to be a relocated one as opposed to an expansion team. The existing franchise with the smallest seating capacity and, coincidentally, is worth the least amount of money is in Tampa Bay. Draw your own conclusions.
 
All this talk is wonderful, however, bottom line is Mtl today just doesn't have the population demographic that gives a fcuk about baseball. Yes the posters on this board from Mtl & elsewhere do, but vast majority of immigrants to Mtl over the last 25-yrs are from locales that have zero affiliation with a "stick & ball" coordination game like baseball.

That was the Brochu led regimes biggest failing, cultivating a younger immigrant & disenchanted young francophone fanbase to become baseball fans from 1990 onwards. All the baseball diamonds in the city have been replaced by soccer pitches, walk down the street and ask an arbitrary Mtl'er to name 3-MLB stars & u'll likely get a blank stare. The game has become a forgone conclusion in the populace's mind, lets not even get into there not being the slightest chance a Mtl team can afford $100M+ payroll.

This talk of Bell media is great, but the Habs are nationally broadcast & derive $ accordingly, no one will pay $10M for Quebec rights, let alone the $75M+ that's required at a minimum - what do the Yankees get for radio rights WFAN I think is about to break the bank and cough up $25M+ per year, yup radio....

Unlike hockey baseball isn't gate driven for revenue, it's all about cable TV deals & luxury boxes. People showing up is bonus money.
 
I stopped following MLB when the Expos left but was is their current revenue sharing like? I believe it was improved upon since 2004.

Pundits in hockey are saying that bottom feeding NHL teams like Florida will get as much as $40M next year for just existing. What kind of handouts does MLB now give?

But yeah... there is no mistake that this is all fantasy talk. I too doubt a team would get the support it needs to pay the bills. It's a shame because I think MLB killed baseball in Montreal and not vice-versa but the game is basically out of reach for anyone to gamble boatloads of money on it now in Montreal.
 
The was actually news this Morning of talk about Xrays coming back to Montreal on the local radio here. We are in NB. So news is spreading. I can only wish.
 
Well Ernst & Young did the study and the polling they did indicates that there is an appetite for major league baseball to return. The business people polled were extremely positive although we have to wait and see what happens when the time comes to scratch out a cheque. But according to the study fans here (I'm talking about the Joe Six-packs, not the suits with expense accounts) would be willing to pay between $20-$50 for a ticket which is a sustainable price point. Revenue sharing is better now than it was in 94, the Canadian dollar is at par instead of 65 cents US and the money that each team gets as a cut of the overall broadcast rights package is substantial (and paid in US funds) There are also revenues coming in from platforms that didn't exist back in 94.

Remember too that a 36,000 seat stadium downtown (the study conservatively projects an average attendance of around 28,000 and change) is a lot easier to fill than a 60,000 seat toilet bowl in one of the shittiest neighbourhoods in the city 10 kms east of downtown.

As for being able to compete with the Yankees and Red Sox, small budget teams like the Rays, the A's and the Pirates have proven that it is possible to be competitive and to make the post-season provided your team is run properly. You can't make a ton of mistakes with contracts and you can't correct those mistakes by throwing money at them like the Yankees, but if you can get something akin to "moneyball", you can put a competitive, entertaining product on the field.

The real bugaboo is the money, particularly the money coming from the taxpayers. The study makes it clear that the best option is a public-private partnership. Such a partnership is going to require the government to come up with $335 million toward the project. This sort of thing is always a hard sell in Canada (just ask the Habs and Canucks who had to build their new arenas without a dime of public money and no property tax breaks) But the government managed to find a couple of hundred million bucks to help build the new arena in Quebec City so you never know. If enough of the right people want it to happen it will happen. But the study makes clear that a stadium deal should only be sealed after a franchise is secured for the city. So the next step is to find a potential owner or owners.
 
They need a 40,000 stadium, and they said they could be competitive with a 75m payroll. Maybe 5-10 years ago, but definitely not now. They would need an 85-100m payroll to realistically even begin to compete, 75m will get you no where.
 
TheCountofMonteCristo said:
he was always easier on them because he never expected anything from them
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The Expos were about hopes and dreams. The Habs are about expectations.

That's why nobody ever called the Habs "Nos Amours".

I know, on an intellectual level, that the return of the Expos is a longshot but I don't care. I want to believe. The heart wants what the heart wants and I want the Expos. I lost the Alouettes and eventually got them back. Why not the Expos?
 
xposbrad said:
They need a 40,000 stadium, and they said they could be competitive with a 75m payroll. Maybe 5-10 years ago, but definitely not now. They would need an 85-100m payroll to realistically even begin to compete, 75m will get you no where.
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That reminds me when the "consortium" was out full force in the French & English media trying to sell the old park. I remember listening to Marc Routtenberg (sp?), he of guess jeans, on Melnick's show in 2000 saying with the new downtown ballpark, the team would be able to generate & survive on a & $50-55M payroll - this was when the Yankess had just topped $125M.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
The Expos were about hopes and dreams. The Habs are about expectations.

That's why nobody ever called the Habs "Nos Amours".

I know, on an intellectual level, that the return of the Expos is a longshot but I don't care. I want to believe. The heart wants what the heart wants and I want the Expos. I lost the Alouettes and eventually got them back. Why not the Expos?
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:thumbup:
 
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