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OT: MLB Thread

I'm not a fan of the expos project proposal, it's not what I would want. Firstly, they want a stadium with a 35k capacity. The average attendance last year was about 33,000.
So 35,000 is a bit too small. You need a 40,000 capacity, for playoffs and for when you play teams like the yanks/dodgers/red sox to balance out the lower attendance for teams like the marlins. The proposed 75m payroll, just would not compete at all in the AL. The construction costs are also a little on the low end. I think they anticipate about 500m to build a DT stadium open air. There's a snowstorm right now in montreal, so that open air concept probably is not that viable. It would most likely cost 750m+ to build a retractable roof, 40,000 capacity, dt stadium from acquiring land to the extra 20% things cost in Quebec to build (corruption, taxes, laziness, things not built correctly etc..).

I agree that 35K is a tad on the smallish side. Like you say, the extra 5K worth of seats is well worth it when the Yankees or Red Sox come to town. It would balance out the low crowds when Kansas City or Oakland show up. I get the theory: they want to keep capacity small enough that it creates demand but you need to be able to cash in when demand is high. 40K would be ideal I think. Any more than that and it becomes too easy to get tickets. They could even do what the Mariners do. Safeco Field seats about 47-48K but there's an entire section of the upper deck behind the right field fence that they don't sell tickets for. Even with that the team is so bad that no one goes to games but they block off those sections in order to lower capacity and hopefully manufacture some degree of demand. But if and when the Mariners get good again and demand goes up, they have those extra seats they can put up for sale. The Expos don't have to print tickets for every seat in the house for every game, but if they have an extra 5K that they have the option of opening up when a big-ticket team like the Yanks or Bosox show up, then it's all good. And I believe that between now and the day they put shovels into the ground that original plan will have been amended to squeeze in a few thousand extra seats.

Another thing that pro sports teams do now that was unheard of back when the Expos were alive is this so-called "dynamic" pricing. Under this model, tickets for an individual game have a starting price and then, as they are sold and become more scarce, the price goes up to mirror demand. This means that stadiums become more like commercial airliners: the guy sitting next to you on the plane may have paid significantly more or significantly less for his ticket than you did depending on when he bought it relative to when you bought yours. What this pricing model also does is encourage both season ticket or mini-pack sales as well as getting potential buyers to commit their money earlier rather than waiting or walking up.

As for the retractable roof, forget it. If you read through the entire Ernst & Young feasibility study you would see why. The cost of adding a roof is prohibitively expensive and, in the end, not cost-effective. The study compared Montreal to Minneapolis, which has a similar population base and, more importantly, comparable weather. Target Field is open air and in the whole time it's been open they've had only a handful of games rained out. Putting on a roof that nearly doubles the cost of your stadium for the sake of 3 or 4 rain outs is a waste of good money. I've been driving down to Seattle for Mariners games ever since Safeco was built and I have NEVER had to watch a game under the roof. On only one occasion was the roof closed when I got to the park and they opened it right before the game started. That roof nearly doubled the cost of building Safeco. Back in the late-90's when it opened it cost $600 million ($1 billion CAD at the time) Montrealers will not countenance another billion dollar boondoggle with a "retractable" roof that you and I both know will wind up never being able to retract. The Expos spent most of their 34 years playing in open air and they managed just fine. The worst years of that franchise were played under the dome, which helped to drive away fans just as much as bad play on the field ever did. Montreal summers are too short to be spent sitting in a dome.
 
More good stuff.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...ef-return-montreal-runaway-success?CMP=twt_gu

Pitching coach Joe Kerrigan was instrumental to the staff he oversaw, one that included a young Pedro Martínez.

I never thought this day would happen where the team would be able to get together again and be recognised for what they did. I never in my wildest dreams ever thought that this would happen. I thought, well, maybe the Nationals would bring us in in Washington or something like that but to come back to Montreal and to have this event happen, it really is a blessing. And we were all very appreciative of it.
 
I agree that 35K is a tad on the smallish side. Like you say, the extra 5K worth of seats is well worth it when the Yankees or Red Sox come to town. It would balance out the low crowds when Kansas City or Oakland show up. I get the theory: they want to keep capacity small enough that it creates demand but you need to be able to cash in when demand is high. 40K would be ideal I think. Any more than that and it becomes too easy to get tickets. They could even do what the Mariners do. Safeco Field seats about 47-48K but there's an entire section of the upper deck behind the right field fence that they don't sell tickets for. Even with that the team is so bad that no one goes to games but they block off those sections in order to lower capacity and hopefully manufacture some degree of demand. But if and when the Mariners get good again and demand goes up, they have those extra seats they can put up for sale. The Expos don't have to print tickets for every seat in the house for every game, but if they have an extra 5K that they have the option of opening up when a big-ticket team like the Yanks or Bosox show up, then it's all good. And I believe that between now and the day they put shovels into the ground that original plan will have been amended to squeeze in a few thousand extra seats.

Another thing that pro sports teams do now that was unheard of back when the Expos were alive is this so-called "dynamic" pricing. Under this model, tickets for an individual game have a starting price and then, as they are sold and become more scarce, the price goes up to mirror demand. This means that stadiums become more like commercial airliners: the guy sitting next to you on the plane may have paid significantly more or significantly less for his ticket than you did depending on when he bought it relative to when you bought yours. What this pricing model also does is encourage both season ticket or mini-pack sales as well as getting potential buyers to commit their money earlier rather than waiting or walking up.

As for the retractable roof, forget it. If you read through the entire Ernst & Young feasibility study you would see why. The cost of adding a roof is prohibitively expensive and, in the end, not cost-effective. The study compared Montreal to Minneapolis, which has a similar population base and, more importantly, comparable weather. Target Field is open air and in the whole time it's been open they've had only a handful of games rained out. Putting on a roof that nearly doubles the cost of your stadium for the sake of 3 or 4 rain outs is a waste of good money. I've been driving down to Seattle for Mariners games ever since Safeco was built and I have NEVER had to watch a game under the roof. On only one occasion was the roof closed when I got to the park and they opened it right before the game started. That roof nearly doubled the cost of building Safeco. Back in the late-90's when it opened it cost $600 million ($1 billion CAD at the time) Montrealers will not countenance another billion dollar boondoggle with a "retractable" roof that you and I both know will wind up never being able to retract. The Expos spent most of their 34 years playing in open air and they managed just fine. The worst years of that franchise were played under the dome, which helped to drive away fans just as much as bad play on the field ever did. Montreal summers are too short to be spent sitting in a dome.

Ok, I can see then no need for a roof if we're talking about 3-4 rainouts a year. Do you recall what the exact price they came up with for the stadium in the proposal, I remember reading somewhere around 525m CAD. Which in itself seems about 200m too low for a stadium. I mean, that sounds like a pretty cheapy no frills type of build. Even the Marlins, who have a very decent new stadium (nice modern look) but by no means high end (technology, high end stuff), but it still cost them 634m usd and the real estate the Montreal stadium would need would cost more, especially in downtown or griffintown. Plus, you add in all the extra costs of building things in Montreal, you are for sure looking at a 700m+ stadium.
 
Ok, I can see then no need for a roof if we're talking about 3-4 rainouts a year. Do you recall what the exact price they came up with for the stadium in the proposal, I remember reading somewhere around 525m CAD. Which in itself seems about 200m too low for a stadium. I mean, that sounds like a pretty cheapy no frills type of build. Even the Marlins, who have a very decent new stadium (nice modern look) but by no means high end (technology, high end stuff), but it still cost them 634m usd and the real estate the Montreal stadium would need would cost more, especially in downtown or griffintown. Plus, you add in all the extra costs of building things in Montreal, you are for sure looking at a 700m+ stadium.

I haven't read the report since it was issued back in December but if memory serves the stadium cost projection was based on comparables for current recently-built MLB facilities like Target Field in Minny and PNC Park in Pittsburgh. I've not been to either of those places - the only modern parks I've been to recently are Safeco (which is already close to 20 years old) and AT&T Park in San Francisco. Both of those stadiums are larger than what the study calls for in Montreal but as for "frills" I'm not sure what you'd really need. Of course you need some amenities for the high-rollers like luxury suites and corporate lounges, but for the average fan you really don't need much: good sightlines, decent food at the concession stands, a good fan to toilet ratio, ample room in the concourse for people to move around. What you do not need is a ridiculously huge jumbotron, luxury restaurants or a hotel with rooms that overlook the field or any superfluous crap like that. I think they should go retro: have a video screen but nothing obtrusive and have a hand-operated scoreboard like Fenway Park or Wrigley Field.

If rust-belt, down on their luck cities like Pittsburgh and Detroit can build new parks surely Montreal can as well.

As for the Marlins, I wouldn't use them as a comparable. Loria's new stadium was a clusterf*** from the get-go. Far too grandiose for the market he's in and fans already hated him before the thing was even built. Then he goes and builds it in a Hispanic area that white fans don't want to park their cars in (no such thing as public transit in places like Miami)
 
I haven't read the report since it was issued back in December but if memory serves the stadium cost projection was based on comparables for current recently-built MLB facilities like Target Field in Minny and PNC Park in Pittsburgh. I've not been to either of those places - the only modern parks I've been to recently are Safeco (which is already close to 20 years old) and AT&T Park in San Francisco. Both of those stadiums are larger than what the study calls for in Montreal but as for "frills" I'm not sure what you'd really need. Of course you need some amenities for the high-rollers like luxury suites and corporate lounges, but for the average fan you really don't need much: good sightlines, decent food at the concession stands, a good fan to toilet ratio, ample room in the concourse for people to move around. What you do not need is a ridiculously huge jumbotron, luxury restaurants or a hotel with rooms that overlook the field or any superfluous crap like that. I think they should go retro: have a video screen but nothing obtrusive and have a hand-operated scoreboard like Fenway Park or Wrigley Field.

If rust-belt, down on their luck cities like Pittsburgh and Detroit can build new parks surely Montreal can as well.

As for the Marlins, I wouldn't use them as a comparable. Loria's new stadium was a clusterf*** from the get-go. Far too grandiose for the market he's in and fans already hated him before the thing was even built. Then he goes and builds it in a Hispanic area that white fans don't want to park their cars in (no such thing as public transit in places like Miami)

good post
 
I did some research on my own.

PNC Park - Opened 2001. Cost $288 million in 2014 dollars. Capacity: 38,362 but has standing room areas which can raised capacity to 40,000. It has 69 luxury suites and 5558 suite and club seats.

Target Field - Opened 2010. Cost $589 million in 2014 dollars. Capacity: 39,021 but has standing room areas which can increase capacity by approx. 2500. It has 54 private and 12 group suites as well as 7000 club seats.

AT&T Park - Opened 2000. Cost $489 million in 2014 dollars. Capacity: 41,915 with standing room capacity of 1500. It has 68 luxury suites as well as 5200 club seats on the club level and another 1500 club seats at field level behind home plate.

Now we have the ones with retractable roofs...

Safeco Field - Opened 1999. Cost $733 million in 2014 dollars. Capacity 47,476. It has 70 suites as well as additional club seating behind home plate.

Miller Park - Opened 2001. Cost $533 million in 2014 dollars, although persistent problems with the retractable roof keep adding to the cost, like a $13 million upgrade that was needed to keep the roof operational after the 2006 season. Capacity 41,900

Rogers Center (formerly SkyDome) - Opened 1989. Cost $937 million in 2014 dollars. Capacity 49,282, 3434 of which are in private boxes.
 
What are the chances the Blue Jays could have either the Nationals or Marlins as an opponent for a game in Montreal?
 
Not sure AL East would be best for Expires. A) they will rarely if ever make the post season

b) the argument that you can cheer for both Blue Jays and Expires as was used in the past when in different leagues) goes out the window as they would be in the same division

c) AL baseball with the DH sucks bag.

d) you cannot base a franchise on the hope fans from opposing teams will fill your stadium
 
Anyway, GO GIANTS

Giants.jpg
 
Not sure AL East would be best for Expires. A) they will rarely if ever make the post season

b) the argument that you can cheer for both Blue Jays and Expires as was used in the past when in different leagues) goes out the window as they would be in the same division

c) AL baseball with the DH sucks bag.

d) you cannot base a franchise on the hope fans from opposing teams will fill your stadium

No..but it sure doesn't hurt the Jays when the Yankees and Boston fill the Rogers centre 18 times a year.

Expos games in Toronto used to be near sell-outs too.
 
Not sure AL East would be best for Expires. A) they will rarely if ever make the post season

b) the argument that you can cheer for both Blue Jays and Expires as was used in the past when in different leagues) goes out the window as they would be in the same division

c) AL baseball with the DH sucks bag.

d) you cannot base a franchise on the hope fans from opposing teams will fill your stadium


a) Given the competition in the AL East, there's no logical reason for the Rays to make the post-season but they do. They play all those divisional games against the Yankees and Bosox and still they manage to get into the post-season

b) I'd disembowel myself with a dollar store steak knife before I'd ever root for a team with the word "Toronto" on their jerseys so no worries there. I'm not conflicted.

c) True, and I loathe the DH too, but the NL East no longer has many compelling match-ups. I'd much rather see the Expos play the Bosox or Yankees rather than the Marlins or the Mets. Besides, with interleague play we'd still get to see our old foes from the Senior Circuit often enough.

d) I don't think they're basing the entire franchise on those divisional games but being able to charge premium prices for a sold-out weekend series against a marquee team like the Yanks or Bosox doesn't hurt the bottom line. And there really isn't a comparably sexy match-up with any NL team (apologies to the Giants but they're no Yankees or Red Sox. They aren't even as sexy as the Dodgers)
 
Some nice quotes from 1994 players over the weekend. Got these from the Expos board.

"there was a special connection between Montreal fans and the players", Wetteland told the Journal de Montreal. "I never found this same fusion in the United States, and I played for a World Series winner with the Yankees! It was in Montreal that I had the most fun playing baseball".


Ken Hill:

"I loved playing in Montreal, and I really hope the city gets a second chance with an [MLB] team".


Sean Berry:

"... even though I played for several teams later, I firmly believe no one could have beaten the 1994 team. ... The fans were completely crazy and the atmosphere at games was unbelievable"
 
Average attendance for the two pre-season games at the Big O: 48,000

Paid attendance for the Tampa Bay Rays' home opening game today: 31,042; roughly 17,000 fewer fans.

Get that downtown stadium built, ASAP.
 
It's articles like this that make me wonder if Montreal is capable of doing anything like building a stadium and getting another big league franchise that isn't hockey.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...-economy-lagging-study-shows/article17073747/


40% of the traffic lights in the city of Detroit are non-functional. Detroit is flat-ass-broke. But it's got teams in all major sports and has built a new football and a new baseball stadium within the last few years. The local economy in Pittsburgh is nothing to write home about but they've built new parks for the Steelers and Pirates, and PNC Park where the Buckos play cost under $300 million to build (in 2014 dollars)

If cities like those can find a way to build stadiums and support their franchises, why not Montreal?
 
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