Habs53
Active member
Just call them the Concorde. That worked out just peachy
OT: MLB Thread
- Thread starter XPOFAN
- Start date
Just call them the Concorde. That worked out just peachy
This is still the greatest catch ever, and by a former Expo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSHzGtPx8zo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSHzGtPx8zo
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou
I will get banned again soon, worry not.
Not even. The Braves made the post season every year for a decade and couldn't sell out their playoff games. And now they're building a new stadium even though the existing one isn't even 20 years old yet. If the Expos had been that good for that long selling tickets wouldn't be a problem. And stadium-wise, the Expos were screwed from Day One. Jarry Park may have been quaint but it wasn't a major league venue. The Big O was never suited to baseball. Neither park was situated downtown.
IMO you can't even count the post-lockout attendance stats. The fanbase had their hearts ripped out then had to watch as the team was dismantled. I don't know of many cities where you could do that and still expect fans to keep showing up. It's all well and good to say that such and such a team recovered after the lockout but those other teams didn't have the best record in the major leagues at the time of work stoppage. It was a mortal wound that ownership was powerless to do anything about. Then the team was sold to a charlatan who purposely drove it off a cliff.
BKerr
Banned
All i see is excuses.... it was a decade between the strike and the end of the franchise. Rumours that the team was in trouble circulated for a long time and people still didn't go.
Pedro was on the team, people didn't go.
Vladdy was on the team, people didn't go.
They were in penant races during those ten years, people didn't go.
At some point that needs to be acknowledged and it isn't "all the strike's fault."
Pedro was on the team, people didn't go.
Vladdy was on the team, people didn't go.
They were in penant races during those ten years, people didn't go.
At some point that needs to be acknowledged and it isn't "all the strike's fault."
Sal_Butera
Well-known member
Really? When did fans not attend if the team was in the pennant race come mid-Aug onwards? 1996 they almost doubled their avg home attendance from early-Aug till they fell out of it in mid-Sept. Unfortunately that was the only time post-1994 lockout they were close to it come Mid-Aug (even then they were 10-back)
Again, I've heard the non-Expos educated media shoot dribble my whole life
- Randy Johnson was a fire sale: when he was throwin 3rd pitcher (Mariners wanted Brian Holman and Gene Harris who was a coveted NCAA fire baller from Tulane) to acquire the most sought after fireballing lefty on the market in 1989 (Price to pay to acquire Langston, and keep him from the Mets, who then had to acquire consolation prize Frank Viola from Minny)
- Like it or willingly admit it or not, regardless of having the lowest payroll in baseball, constant dumping of high salaries & refusal by ownership to take on salary post-All Star game, fans showed up in droves (highest walk up crowd in MLB) for Aug & Sept 1992, 1993, and 1994 each year they were in a pennant race (let alone top-3 in MLB attendance from 1979-1983)
Like I said before BKerr, no offense but u know squat about the Expos and their history, u regurgitate lines spouted off on TSN or ESPN.
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XPOFAN
New member
Sal, blowhards will be blowhards.
Even in 2003 when the league was running the team and attendance was at record lows and all was basically lost, there was that short period of Believer Fever when out the blue, we found ourselves in a race and 20K to 25K showed up for those games vs the Phillies. While nothing special by itself, when you consider that there might have been about 1500 season tickets at that point, it meant 20K people actually walked up and bought tickets because there was a shred of hope. We all know how the league made sure that nothing would come of it, but it does show that a committed owner and a little hope would have certainly gone a long way.
But what do we know. We only lived it. The experts know everything.
Even in 2003 when the league was running the team and attendance was at record lows and all was basically lost, there was that short period of Believer Fever when out the blue, we found ourselves in a race and 20K to 25K showed up for those games vs the Phillies. While nothing special by itself, when you consider that there might have been about 1500 season tickets at that point, it meant 20K people actually walked up and bought tickets because there was a shred of hope. We all know how the league made sure that nothing would come of it, but it does show that a committed owner and a little hope would have certainly gone a long way.
But what do we know. We only lived it. The experts know everything.
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou
I will get banned again soon, worry not.
Naysayers notwithstanding there will eventually be a team in Montreal again. It makes too much sense and there's too much money to be made that can't be ignored.
BKerr
Banned
Average Expos Attendance.
1998 11,295
1999 9,540
2000 11,435
2001 7,935
2002 10,031
2003 12,662
2004 9,356
How come when its the Phoenix Coyotes? or the Florida Panthers? who have attendance like this we immediately say... non-hockey market.. move the team.
- They also have their arenas out in the middle of nowhere,
- have gone cheap in payroll for years,
- let star players leave in trades and free agency
- suffered in a work stoppage
- Miss the playoffs most years
- had 1 good playoff run each (Panthers in 1996, Coyotes in 2012),
With these southern hockey teams, we are more than content to say "Not a Hockey City, Move them. Put them in Quebec City" But when its the Expos we make the same excuses for those numbers (it was the strike, it was the owners having fire sales, put a competitive team and they will come, just need a downtown stadium, etc). Which of these excuses wouldn't apply to the same NHL teams many have argued against?
1998 11,295
1999 9,540
2000 11,435
2001 7,935
2002 10,031
2003 12,662
2004 9,356
How come when its the Phoenix Coyotes? or the Florida Panthers? who have attendance like this we immediately say... non-hockey market.. move the team.
- They also have their arenas out in the middle of nowhere,
- have gone cheap in payroll for years,
- let star players leave in trades and free agency
- suffered in a work stoppage
- Miss the playoffs most years
- had 1 good playoff run each (Panthers in 1996, Coyotes in 2012),
With these southern hockey teams, we are more than content to say "Not a Hockey City, Move them. Put them in Quebec City" But when its the Expos we make the same excuses for those numbers (it was the strike, it was the owners having fire sales, put a competitive team and they will come, just need a downtown stadium, etc). Which of these excuses wouldn't apply to the same NHL teams many have argued against?
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Sal_Butera
Well-known member
Because Phoenix, Florida etc. (non-traditional hockey markets) never have been top-3 in attendance...EVER. Never had a history of hockey, unlike Mtll & baseball - Jackie Robinson/Royals etc. Never packed the house with league avg or above ticket pricing...EVER, and all these non-traditional markets have had the luxury of being provided favoritism by the Commish, which the 'Spos never had...
Also where's the data from early 80's, 87, 89, Aug/Sept 92, 93, 94, seems like ur data contradicts ur argument - re: Mtl'ers not showing up w a team in the heat of a pennant race in Aug/Sept, just sayin...
BTW - another Expos historical education lesson, post 1996 season was the start of massive "fire sale #2" (first one being spring 1995). Letting Moises Alou, Lansing walk, w full know intention of letting Pedro go the following season, along w Fletcher & Segui.
Its actually impressive 11K showed up on avg in 98...
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Referring to attendance 30 yrs ago is hardly a good argument. TV ratings were never good either nor were radio ratings. If a team returned to Montreal it will have little or no fanbase outside Montreal. Many of us that were fans once have moved on.
I won't go back, my son won't switch.
I can see a few decent years of attendance then inevitably when the team is bad the old attendance excuses of "it's cheap movie night, passover, it's Habs playoffs, it's before June 24, it's after Labour Day" will be trotted out.
BKerr
Banned
1980 27,261
1981 28,418
1982 28,621
1983 28,650
1984 19,957
1985 18,665
1986 14,025
1987 22,844
1988 18,255
1989 22,019
1990 16,952
1991 11,612
1992 20,607
1993 20,265
1994 22,390
1995 18,189
1996 19,959
1997 18,489
A few things we learn from these numbers.
1) Attendance was below average.... from the 1984 season onwards. For all those years... not once did the team average 23,000 per game. That's not good.
2) The major dropoff didn't occur after the strike. Attendance in 1995, 96 and 97 was still poor (about 18,000 a game) but it didn't plummet like it did in 1998.
Seems a bit of revisionist history Sal.
As for history, no, there may not be a Jackie Robinson, but the city of Phoenix has a history of successful minor league hockey clubs.
1981 28,418
1982 28,621
1983 28,650
1984 19,957
1985 18,665
1986 14,025
1987 22,844
1988 18,255
1989 22,019
1990 16,952
1991 11,612
1992 20,607
1993 20,265
1994 22,390
1995 18,189
1996 19,959
1997 18,489
A few things we learn from these numbers.
1) Attendance was below average.... from the 1984 season onwards. For all those years... not once did the team average 23,000 per game. That's not good.
2) The major dropoff didn't occur after the strike. Attendance in 1995, 96 and 97 was still poor (about 18,000 a game) but it didn't plummet like it did in 1998.
Seems a bit of revisionist history Sal.
As for history, no, there may not be a Jackie Robinson, but the city of Phoenix has a history of successful minor league hockey clubs.
Sal_Butera
Well-known member
FYI - 2M fans (25K per game approx) was considered the benchmark of elite success from early 70's-1990, only teams to guarantee surpassing that number regularly were the Dodgers & Cards. There's no doubting "Anglo flight" of the early 80's led to a considerable drop off in attendance, and there's no doubt Mtl will never draw 45K+ avg per game, but the Pirates, Royals, etc. all survive/thrive & have been resurrected while drawing 25K-30K, which is doable in today's Mtl.
BTW - numbers above tie to my point 92-94 team was competitive & drew 20K+ avg attendance, 96 after fire sale #1, fans still started showing up during the pennant drive pushing attendance up towards 20K.
The customer is not stupid, the Habs sucked in the late 90's, and the legendary hockey team couldn't sell out, Expos fans were no different. RDS broadcast numbers were quite high, for Expos broadcasts, but as I've also stated for any chance of a team surviving they will need to overcome the broadcast rights deal divvying up Canada w the Blow Jays.
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XPOFAN
New member
No offence Count, but you don't know what your son will do. He will make his own decisions.
XPOFAN
New member
:frown2:
I know my son. I also know that the team you cheer for at 10 and 11 is the one you tend to stick with barring something unforeseen. There is no reason for him to become a Montreal baseball team fan.
XPOFAN
New member
Except like many before him, he will be taken up in the enthusiasm of nos amours part 2. And since he already cheers for a Montreal team...
he cheers for the first team because I do.
XPOFAN
New member
Even the dad will come back to the fold.