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OT: The Because Science Thread (Now With Aliens!)

Yeah well disagree with you on this one like I do on lots of them I guess but we need people like him. If we ever manage to get off this planet and into the solar system it will be people like him that helped us get there
 
He's an industrialist who repackages the innovations of others, makes the original idea worse, and maximizes personal profit.

If people like Elon are the reason we manage to get off this planet and not the actual geniuses who created the technology, it will be a shit future where the billionaires have won and they are escaping the planet because they ruined this one.
 
So a worse version of the space shuttle? It's a 50 yr old concept that has been picked up by a few billionaires because the US government can't be bothered to properly fund NASA.


Man, I really can’t agree with this.

The space shuttle wasn’t really in any way a reusable rocket. It was a space plane strapped to very large, 100% disposable rockets. And it was monstrously expensive to launch, operate and maintain, and it was responsible for the deaths of 14 out of the 17 NASA astronauts who’ve died in the line of duty.

That’s not to say the shuttle was all bad. It played a big part in building the ISS, and without the shuttle, Hubble wouldn’t have ever been anything more than just a hunk of useless space junk.

All in all though, I look at the shuttle as emblematic of a lost era and massive misallocation of resources in human space flight. And reusable rockets that cost a tiny fraction of what the shuttle did per launch are very much a step in the right direction.

As for Elon personally, is he an uber-capitalist dick known for running toxic workplaces? Is he not personally much of an engineer or creator, and a lot more like Jeff Bezos rather than the Tony Stark-like persona he likes to cultivate? Sure, absolutely. But I’m still glad SpaceX is around and someone’s starting to push the manned space exploration envelope again.
 
He's an industrialist who repackages the innovations of others, makes the original idea worse, and maximizes personal profit.

If people like Elon are the reason we manage to get off this planet and not the actual geniuses who created the technology, it will be a shit future where the billionaires have won and they are escaping the planet because they ruined this one.
The personality of the funding source doesn't really matter, the bottom line is scientists need funding and this guy provides it.

I also disagree that the planet will be left in ruins. In order to colonize another planet, we'll have to learn how to change it's atmosphere and terraform it to our needs. When or if the time comes where we can live on another planet, technology will be in a place where the damage caused on this planet can be reversed.
 
And its not just space. The guy reinvented the car, is trying to cure neurological diseases/injuries, is at the forfront of AI with autopilot and Tesla bot.

I mean sure he's a crazy billionaire digging tunnels under cities, going to space, building robots and implanting computer chips in people's brains. He could very well be an evil genius as opposed to the hero. Its a thin line. But he is definitely a genius and innovator.
 
Man, I really can’t agree with this.

The space shuttle wasn’t really in any way a reusable rocket. It was a space plane strapped to very large, 100% disposable rockets. And it was monstrously expensive to launch, operate and maintain, and it was responsible for the deaths of 14 out of the 17 NASA astronauts who’ve died in the line of duty.

That’s not to say the shuttle was all bad. It played a big part in building the ISS, and without the shuttle, Hubble wouldn’t have ever been anything more than just a hunk of useless space junk.

All in all though, I look at the shuttle as emblematic of a lost era and massive misallocation of resources in human space flight. And reusable rockets that cost a tiny fraction of what the shuttle did per launch are very much a step in the right direction.

As for Elon personally, is he an uber-capitalist dick known for running toxic workplaces? Is he not personally much of an engineer or creator, and a lot more like Jeff Bezos rather than the Tony Stark-like persona he likes to cultivate? Sure, absolutely. But I’m still glad SpaceX is around and someone’s starting to push the manned space exploration envelope again.


Eh, the Falcon Heavy (the pending replacement for the Falcon 9 whenever he can get them to stop blowing up) is the exact same concept, but less functional.

falcon-heavy-spacex-rocket.jpg


A partially reusable centre portion (the Falcon 9 itself is partially reusable, only stage 1) with disposable rockets providing the additional lift it needs to carry payloads that the shuttle was carrying 40 years ago.

Sure though, SpaceX flights are 10% the cost of shuttle flights. But they're far, far less versatile. The Falcon Heavy isn't rated for carrying humans (and SpaceX isn't trying to get that rating). Also much smaller payload and no capability to do much of anything but ferry satelites into orbit (and while the Falcon 9 is active, astronauts to the ISS that wouldn't have been possible without the shuttle).

It's easy to blame the shuttle for the deaths of the astronauts but it's not really true. Challenger was destroyed when the rocket booster blew up, which was determined to be a faulty o-ring. Nasa cheaped out on procurement there, it had nothing to do with the tech of the shuttle itself. Columbia was damaged in flight, NASA knews about the damage and refused to wait for the DOD to task a spy satelite to get a better look at it, instead decided to risk re-entry with a hole of relatively unknown severity in the wing.

NASA killed 14 astronauts with shitty safety practices, not the shuttle.

Most of the shuttle's systems were designed in the 70's, could you imagine if they had never stopped developing better and better tech? We're as far removed from the design of the space shuttle as the space shuttle was from the roaring fucking 20's, prohibition, Al Capone, etc and tech has grown far faster between the 70's and now, than the 20's to the 70's. As for the cost, the total cost of the shuttle program was somewhere in the 500 billion dollar range over the course of decades, or 1/5th of the stated costs (not including VA stuff for decades) of the war in Afghanistan, 1/4 the Iraq war, etc.
 
Eh, the Falcon Heavy (the pending replacement for the Falcon 9 whenever he can get them to stop blowing up) is the exact same concept, but less functional.

falcon-heavy-spacex-rocket.jpg


A partially reusable centre portion (the Falcon 9 itself is partially reusable, only stage 1) with disposable rockets providing the additional lift it needs to carry payloads that the shuttle was carrying 40 years ago.

Sure though, SpaceX flights are 10% the cost of shuttle flights. But they're far, far less versatile. The Falcon Heavy isn't rated for carrying humans (and SpaceX isn't trying to get that rating). Also much smaller payload and no capability to do much of anything but ferry satelites into orbit (and while the Falcon 9 is active, astronauts to the ISS that wouldn't have been possible without the shuttle).

It's easy to blame the shuttle for the deaths of the astronauts but it's not really true. Challenger was destroyed when the rocket booster blew up, which was determined to be a faulty o-ring. Nasa cheaped out on procurement there, it had nothing to do with the tech of the shuttle itself. Columbia was damaged in flight, NASA knews about the damage and refused to wait for the DOD to task a spy satelite to get a better look at it, instead decided to risk re-entry with a hole of relatively unknown severity in the wing.

NASA killed 14 astronauts with shitty safety practices, not the shuttle.

Most of the shuttle's systems were designed in the 70's, could you imagine if they had never stopped developing better and better tech? We're as far removed from the design of the space shuttle as the space shuttle was from the roaring fucking 20's, prohibition, Al Capone, etc and tech has grown far faster between the 70's and now, than the 20's to the 70's. As for the cost, the total cost of the shuttle program was somewhere in the 500 billion dollar range over the course of decades, or 1/5th of the stated costs (not including VA stuff for decades) of the war in Afghanistan, 1/4 the Iraq war, etc.

"Rockets"

T3PnXnG.jpg
 
And its not just space. The guy reinvented the car, is trying to cure neurological diseases/injuries, is at the forfront of AI with autopilot and Tesla bot.

I mean sure he's a crazy billionaire digging tunnels under cities, going to space, building robots and implanting computer chips in people's brains. He could very well be an evil genius as opposed to the hero. Its a thin line. But he is definitely a genius and innovator.

I guess this is the core of my problem with him, all the misattributed praise....Elon didn't reinvent the car. He was the VC funding for the people who reinvented the car (speficially because they saw a place in the market for EV's after GM dummied the EV1 program). His design input into the Roadster was the lights, a bunch of the power function assemblies (power windows, seats), etc. The core technology was designed and developed by other people who sought him out for funding.

Elon deserves credit on the business side of things, 100%. His personal money along with his ability to sell the vision and raise capital is what has kept Tesla going. I will generally agree that without Tesla creating additional interest that the large car companies would have been much slower to adapt and pump out electric vehicles, so credit is deserved there as well for putting a scare into corporations that generally don't move quickly unless forced to. But 6.6 million of them were sold last year, just over 900K of those were Tesla.

As for the rest...well, Elon loves giving grand visions for his ideas that very rarely come to fruition in any sort of timeframe that makes them possible to deliver.

Solar roofs & the tesla wall were going to revolutionize the grid. Big wet fart that is more expensive and worse than existing technology on the market.

The hyperloop was going to revolutionize travel...it's worse and more expensive than high speed rail.

SpaceX I've already touched on, but here's an example of his "innovation"

Even one of SpaceX’s greatest employees, Steve Davis, experienced Elon’s lack of caring. Davis was once assigned a task that seemed so impossible that another engineer said, ‘any other engineer at any other aerospace company would never have even attempted’. The assignment was to take a part that was quoted for $120,000 and built it on Elon’s proposed budget of $5,000. Davis spent nine months and poured his life into it. In the end, he was able to able to make it for only $3,900! Davis sent Elon an email detailing his greatest accomplishment to which Elon simply replied ‘Ok.’

w75ngn.gif


Being a predatory capitalist and taking credit for the work of others isn't exactly an innovation, that's a tale as old as time.

You're going to have to excuse me if I question his ability to deliver on his grandiose claims regarding Neuralink, Driverless cars (which he's nowhere close on, and way behind his previous projections on).
 
The guy wanted to build rocket ships as a kid...and he created businesses he could sell until he made enough money to...build fucking rocket ships.

What do you do again?
 
Zeke's quote "Yeah Elon is the tits. Even if he sucks balls" is a wonderful way of putting it for me. But moar ME rants please.
 
The personality of the funding source doesn't really matter, the bottom line is scientists need funding and this guy provides it.

Oh, I agree. He deserves credit for being interested in the right fields. His first major work was in trying to disrupt the banking industry (X.com) which is a solid goal (banking is a shit industry and a source of a decent amount of misery), he wanted to see electric car tech advanced and brought to mass market, he wanted to see humans set foot on Mars. All great goals and he deserves credit for marrying those visions with the money necessary to advance them.
 
The guy wanted to build rocket ships as a kid...and he created businesses he could sell until he made enough money to...build fucking rocket ships.

What do you do again?

A few things

He built those businesses to build those businesses, not as part of some grand plan to build rockets. He pivoted after he had made his money as part of the whole x.com/paypal saga with Thiel. He only got interested in this after he realized NASA had no plans to go to Mars (which was his childhood dream, not to build rockets). What do I do? So what, the guy is beyond critique unless I cure cancer? The fuck kind of fanboy shit is that. Read my posts, I give him credit for what I think he deserves credit for. But feel that a lot of the credit he deserves as a technologist is unearned. His main contribution is as a capitalist with some worthy goals, not as a visionary technologist, which is very much how he is portrayed publicly.
 
^ Thanks for proving my point.
What, I proved you point by admiring his accomplishments and suggesting he doesn't need to give us his opinions?

Sorry if I'm wrong, just feels like you think that makes me a "fanboy", and it would mean the opposite.

Let me know, I'll either apologize or attempt to explain to you where you're going wrong.
 
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