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OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

Such a bullshit take. You're only asshurt because Kyle wasn't rightly recognized as the best player on that team at the time. But Demar was a real gud offensive player the 3 seasons before he was traded.

Combined oBPM over those 3 seasons:

Butler: 13.8
KAT: 12.9
Blake Griffin: 11.2
Love: 10.8
Demar: 10.6
Cousins: 10.2
PG13: 9.0
Beal: 8.3
Klay: 7.5
Aldridge: 7.0

Demar was comfortably in the tier below the perennial all NBA/MVP types, but he was definitely in that tier. Don't hate on him because Kyle was under appreciated. He was legitimately very fucking good those years.
 
zeke said:
And those same 3yrs in the playoffs: 49.1ts%, 1.5obpm, -4.5dpm.

Fraud.
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Did you even follow the team before the we the north era? I vividly remember being proper shit, and then Kyle-Demar happened, and we were no longer proper shit.

Demar was a huge reason we stopped being proper shit because our star players kept fucking off as soon as they were able to. He was the first guy to fully buy in to the city and franchise. Even Kyle didn't until Demar did. This is just such a fucking weird take to have about the guy.
 
Demar will go into the Hall and then in the rafters.

But you know what? Meh, Raptors have history, and they should start to celebrate their history with players who wanted to be here.

KLOE next, though!
 
MindzEye said:
Did you even follow the team before the we the north era? I vividly remember being proper shit, and then Kyle-Demar happened, and we were no longer proper shit.

Demar was a huge reason we stopped being proper shit because our star players kept fucking off as soon as they were able to. He was the first guy to fully buy in to the city and franchise. Even Kyle didn't until Demar did. This is just such a fucking weird take to have about the guy.
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yep, we were proper shit - including 4 years of proper shit with Demar, before Kyle became the undisputed starting PG and Jonas the starting C in 2013-14, and then we became good instantly, despite having a fraud of a #1 option.

we then graduated from good to excellent when the bench of future all stars Siakam Fred OG Norm got drafted. and then elite after ditching Demar.

and then, even after losing Kawhi and not even replacing him, those bench guys kept the Raps as a 50win team as starters.
 
Fwiw...current short list that I'll expand on later:

Guys I like but don't expect to be there but hope they drop.

Cameron Carr
Chris Cenac
Hans Steinbach

Guys who should be there, in the current order I like them at the 19

Ebuka Okorie
Christian Anderson
Isiaiah Evans
Amari Allen

and an hon mention that I have no idea how to rank yet, but is the analytics gangster of the bunch

Allen Graves
 
zeke said:
we then graduated from good to excellent when the bench of future all stars Siakam Fred OG Norm got drafted. and then elite after ditching Demar.
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That's like, not how it happened at all.

They were a 56 win team that finished 2nd in the EC when Norm was the only one of the 4 on the team and was playing 15 minutes a night. They were already excellent, had already made a conference finals before the bench mob was a thing.

This is just weird. I've seen you admit in other conversations (Ingram, etc) that being a team's lead volume scorer is a role that is legitimately difficult and that makes a team better for having a good one. You spent the 1st half of the season milking Ingram for being a worse version of what Demar was for us. Demar was a pretty good #1 scoring option for 4 of his final 5 seasons with the team. A top 15ish 1st option in the league overall across those seasons combined. Kyle was the engine & best player on those teams but Demar was way better than you're giving him credit for.
 
that 56 win team went to the playoffs and....

Jonas 60.1ts%, +5.7bpm
Lowry 50.8ts%, +2.5bpm
Biyombo 61.1ts%, +1.5bpm
Cojo 52.4ts%, +0.8bpm
Norm 46.2ts%, +0.7bpm
Carroll 50.6ts%, -0.1bpm
PPat 51.9ts%, -0.1bpm
Ross 49.3ts%, -0.2bpm
Demar 46.2ts%, -1.3bpm
Scola 39.1ts%, -5.6bpm


what a fraud.

burn it.
 
He was the first guy to fully buy in to the city and franchise.

I truly love that about him. Name a premium sandwich after him at Real Sports. But I don't think we should retire his number.
 
CH1 said:
He was the first guy to fully buy in to the city and franchise.

I truly love that about him. Name a premium sandwich after him at Real Sports. But I don't think we should retire his number.
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Going to be weird to have a dude make the HOF, and have his best seasons a Raptor, but not retire his number. The idea of a Raptors retired number being harder to get than a plaque in the Naismith...
 
For me, DeMar represents an organizational plateau that was impossible to bust through without moving on from him and upgrading on him.

He embraced Toronto which was cool I guess, but Toronto is a world class city, so congratulations?
 
MindzEye said:
Going to be weird to have a dude make the HOF, and have his best seasons a Raptor, but not retire his number. The idea of a Raptors retired number being harder to get than a plaque in the Naismith...
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You think he's a first ballot HOF?
 
My whole thing was that KLOE should be the first Raptor in the rafters. It didn't happen that way.

So if VC is retired, Demar (who wanted to be here) should be as well.
 
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