• Moderators, please send me a PM if you are unable to access mod permissions. Thanks, Habsy.

OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

MindzEye said:
Demar deserves a jersey retirement, 100%

Vince, Kyle, Demar, Kawhi, Pascal, probably Fred even. A few guys off of this team if they stay long enough as well most likely.
Click to expand...
Really? Kind of a low bar if we’re adding Pascal and Fred in there I think. The rafters should be reserved for the greats of a franchise. VC, Kyle for sure. Kawhi for one season kinda goes against what I’m saying but he’s the best player in franchise history.

How many years before you run out of room while filling it with middling “stars”.
 
Some super early OBpm/DBpm from the rotation:

Starters:
Jake: -0.9/-0.9
Scottie: 0.5/0.1
Gradey: 1.5/-2.2
RJ: 5.6/-2.1
Davion: -4.5/-1.6

Bench:
Mogbo: 0.1/0.9
Agbaji: 0.8/-0.4
Boucher: 1.9/-1.3
Shead: -3.8/-3.9
Battle: 2.1/-2.4

So my main takeaways are that the defence has been fucking terrible as a group and I don't know how much to read into it yet. We're still at the point where an ugly quarter or two can influence the numbers quite a bit. It's very encouraging though to see RJ & Gravy having that type of offensive impact, and the role guys (Mogbo, Agbaji, Boucher) showing positive influence on the offence when they're out there as well. Disappointed in Davion & Shead, but again we're at a place where either of them going on a bit of a streak from 3 turns their offensive numbers around in a hurry. Both are shooting terribly from outside currently and both could be taking care of the ball better. Zeke's boy Battle is making an argument for more minutes though I think he's going to stay stuck behind Mogbo and Agbaji in the rotation. Agbaji brings D that he doesn't appear to, and Mogbo a versatility he doesn't. I'll say this though, Battle was a fucking sniper in his senior year for Ohio state and the change to the NBA 3 doesn't look difficult for him at all. If he's able to become a decent defender we might be looking at really nice George Niang type role player.
 
Leafin' said:
Really? Kind of a low bar if we’re adding Pascal and Fred in there I think. The rafters should be reserved for the greats of a franchise. VC, Kyle for sure. Kawhi for one season kinda goes against what I’m saying but he’s the best player in franchise history.

How many years before you run out of room while filling it with middling “stars”.
Click to expand...

I mean, Pascal's legacy here is pretty, pretty good

- 2x NBA All Star
- 2x All NBA
- NBA Champion
- NBA MIP

If that doesn't get into your rafters you're not really honouring enough good players. For comparison...the Jays have guys like George Bell, Bautista, Tony Fernandez in their level of excellence....hard to say Pascal didn't do as much or more with the Raptors than those guys did with the Jays. Could do the same exercise with the Leafs. Did Salming have a better career in Toronto than Pascal? Everyone adores Wendel, but where's the hardware?

Fred there's a better argument for excluding. I'm just of the mind that if someone makes an all star team, all nba, wins a major award or is a major part of a championship team they're immediately someone who deserves consideration and talking yourself out of including them. 1x all star and 6th man on the title team probably isn't enough. Pascal though, definitely enough.
 
Tells us more about the historical ineptitude of these Toronto franchises more than anything.

Didn’t the Jays put up a wildcard banner?

Pathetic.

Siakam I can get behind,
 
Leafin' said:
Tells us more about the historical ineptitude of these Toronto franchises more than anything.
Click to expand...

Nah man, most teams retire players who were important to the franchise but weren't necessarily Superstar/HOF calibre players.

There's really only a few teams in each league who have such ridiculous histories that leaving off someone with Pascal's pedigree. Shit, even a team like the Celtics has a bunch of guys who are there more for the teams they were on than what they did. Legit role players from their Bill Russell & Larry Bird dynasties. Cedric Maxwell...no, not even Vernon fucking Maxwell, Cedric. Has his jersey retired by one of the two most storied NBA franchises ever.
 
Pwner said:
Well... what about Chris Bosh? If Pascal gets one, then Bosh should.
Click to expand...

Had he stayed a while longer, I'd agree. But 1 All NBA vs 2, no chip vs chip. Bosh is definitely someone we should consider. I'd be a no on that because we were never better than mediocre while he was here, but 5x all star as a Raptor would be a good legacy if he hadn't been planning behind our backs for a few years to walk in free agency to help creates the Heatles. That kind of fucks your legacy in a city though, so nah.
 
MindzEye said:
Had he stayed a while longer, I'd agree. But 1 All NBA vs 2, no chip vs chip. Bosh is definitely someone we should consider. I'd be a no on that because we were never better than mediocre while he was here, but 5x all star as a Raptor would be a good legacy if he hadn't been planning behind our backs for a few years to walk in free agency to help creates the Heatles. That kind of fucks your legacy in a city though, so nah.
Click to expand...
And yeah that does, but Vince sucked his way out of town too—more people were pissed at Vince than Bosh at the times when they left.

I think people understood why Bosh left but yeah, if I recall correctly, he played coy with Management about resigning (though I think I wanted them to trade him with a year left).

Rookie of the Year, played here 7 years - which is right around the year requirements, 5 x all-star, 2 playoff appearances, and a Hall of Famer.
 
I don't want to relitigate the whole Vince thing...but what Bosh did and what Vince did were entirely different. Vince wanted to stay and got fucked about by hilariously inept management, however he handled it personally in the end. Bosh was secretly planning his way out to form the gay trio a few years before he left and didn't care to stay or want to stay. It's a nearly unprecedented back stabbing tbh. That kind of fucks a guy out of his legacy in that city imo. Nobody really hates him here because no one really loved him in the first place.

Bosh was never the level of star Vince was, in the city or in the league. Vince's impact on Canadian basketball culture was like an asteroid hitting the city. It's a pretty special situation. Bosh's legacy is in Miami, Vince's is here.
 
MindzEye said:
I don't want to relitigate the whole Vince thing...but what Bosh did and what Vince did were entirely different. Vince wanted to stay and got fucked about by hilariously inept management, however he handled it personally in the end. Bosh was secretly planning his way out to form the gay trio a few years before he left and didn't care to stay or want to stay. It's a nearly unprecedented back stabbing tbh. That kind of fucks a guy out of his legacy in that city imo. Nobody really hates him here because no one really loved him in the first place.

Bosh was never the level of star Vince was, in the city or in the league. Vince's impact on Canadian basketball culture was like an asteroid hitting the city. It's a pretty special situation. Bosh's legacy is in Miami, Vince's is here.
Click to expand...
It’s hazy now but I don’t remember the Vince wanting to stay part. I remember him deliberately playing like shit to force his way out of town, and admitted to it later, which is something I’ve never seen another pro athlete do. He was electric for years, but because of how he was at the end, I don’t look at him so fondly.
 
zeke said:
draw the line at jersey retirements wherever you need to to not retire DD's.
Click to expand...
Kinda agree. I liked him and feel for him the way they flipped him even though he truly did want to stay, but there’s something lacking about him, and regardless why he left, he never won with us, and we wouldn’t have won with him, so it feels a bit unearned.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
It’s hazy now but I don’t remember the Vince wanting to stay part.
Click to expand...

You have to remember, the organization started pushing vince out 18+ months before the trade. Questioning his work ethic, questioning publicly if his injuries were legit, making public statements about the team needing to step back from being Vince's team, etc. An entire year of the organization fucking with him occurred before he requested a trade the following summer, after which we didn't trade him for whatever reason (there's a rumour that a Ray Allen for Vince trade was out there and we weren't interested) and then the situation snowballed in season to the goat orgy that has gone down in legend.
 
Regarding Demar Derozan it's pretty simple....dude is probably going to the hall of fame, and he's going in as a Raptor. It would be one of the dumbest things in professional sports if you have a HOF'er from your organization who doesn't have their jersey retired.

Demar is 30th all time in NBA scoring. He's going to pass Charles Barkley this week. Will probably pass Reggie Miller by the end of the season for 23rd. Will pass Vince next year and at 35 doesn't appear to be slowing down yet (25ppg to start the season). It is not crazy at all if he can stay healthy and good that Demar finishes top fucking 10 all time in points. He's about 4500 behind Carmelo for 10th and he's averaged 1900+ his last 3 seasons.
 
MindzEye said:
Regarding Demar Derozan it's pretty simple....dude is probably going to the hall of fame, and he's going in as a Raptor. It would be one of the dumbest things in professional sports if you have a HOF'er from your organization who doesn't have their jersey retired.

Demar is 30th all time in NBA scoring. He's going to pass Charles Barkley this week. Will probably pass Reggie Miller by the end of the season for 23rd. Will pass Vince next year and at 35 doesn't appear to be slowing down yet (25ppg to start the season). It is not crazy at all if he can stay healthy and good that Demar finishes top fucking 10 all time in points. He's about 4500 behind Carmelo for 10th and he's averaged 1900+ his last 3 seasons.
Click to expand...
+1

There is some disrespek for DD in these parts. Yeah, he was (is) a sub-par playoff performer, but he legit was a star here and was a good soldier for years while the Raps got their shit together. Thinking all-time top 10-15 scorer is not good enough to get his jersey retired for the Raptors of all franchises is laughable.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top