OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread
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Pwner
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Big respect to Charlie V!
But too be fair, he did have the vest portion of his career here and was a fan favorite.
View: https://x.com/YourBoyH2O/status/1902817421359993102?t=iRz0catdtqcM8oCQACwGpA&s=19
But too be fair, he did have the vest portion of his career here and was a fan favorite.
View: https://x.com/YourBoyH2O/status/1902817421359993102?t=iRz0catdtqcM8oCQACwGpA&s=19
zeke
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axlsalinger
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axlsalinger
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axlsalinger
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axlsalinger
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axlsalinger
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zeke
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CH1
The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins.
axlsalinger
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MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Not the end of the year yet, but enough stuff is more or less locked in to do a final write up.
Team looks like it's going to end up in the low 30's for wins, which given the injuries is probably a decent showing and suggests that .500ish was achieveable with a bit of luck.
BPM/EPM (EPM Percentile)
The Core:
Scottie: 2.6/1.6 (87th)
- Not necessarily a disappointing season, but not the step forward we were looking for either, especially at the offensive end. He definitely flexed some "Super Draymond" skills in the 2nd half, but whether he'll ever be even a passible primary scorer is definitely up in the air. The 3 point shooting just isn't coming along and it might be time to get him away from above the break. He can probably develop into an average corner 3 shooter for spacing and I'm still bullish on the mid range game becoming a legit weapon. Obviously gifted in transition. On the defensive side, some encouraging steps forward on the ball to go with his already well above average help defense. Finishing in the 91st percentile in defensive impact on team that will finish ~16th in defensive rating suggests that he can probably anchor an elite defence when he's finished developing.
Quickley: 2.2/2.4 (92nd)
- Fucked up, injury plagued season but if you're looking for more reason to be bullish on this group moving forward, here you go. If he had qualified, BPM would have him among the top 30 players offensively and offensive EPM has him rated similar, ahead of Cade Cunningham, tied with Jah Morant, right behind Tyler Herro, etc. He's putting up the type of offensive impacts he did while sheltered on the Knicks bench, and if he can play 65+ next season is probably giving fringe all star type impacts.
RJ: 0.6/0.0 (71st)
- Another weird development year that makes it hard to gauge what he is moving forward. Efficiency struggled, which dragged down some of his offensive metrics overall (OEPM for example has him a 79th percentile offensive player, which is pretty okay) but some of that is from the stretch we used him as a lead guard while the rest of the team was injury crippled. What I think is pretty clear is that he's unlikely to turn into an offensive focal point for the team, he's too limited for that, but he can be a high high level role player on a good team imo. His defensive metrics suck, but I think a good chunk of that is team effects, though I don't think he'll ever be more than an average defender. He's probably the most likely to get traded out of this bunch though but there's no rush with 2 years of control left at a reasonable number.
Jake: 2.3/1.9 (89th)
- Just a real gud role player who does some things very well, has some obvious holes in his game but is a major net positive when you're trying to win games. We should probably be looking to extend him, with only one year guaranteed beyond this season and a player option after that. It doesn't sound like he wants to go anywhere else and he's probably got 2-3 years of peak Jake left anyway.
The Kids:
Gravy: -3.3/-2.6 (27th)
- A step forward from a pretty shit rookie season, but there's a long way to go before he's anything more than a back of the bench guy imo. EPM has him in the 3rd percentile defensively and aside from showing a bit more defensive awareness and a better flair for defensive playmaking at times, he was pure garbage on the defensive end the vast majority of the games that I watched. He can't keep his shadow in front of himself at this point and it's so bad as to be fatal to his NBA career if he doesn't sort this shit out. No one cares in the organization yet because we weren't trying to win games yet. But he's only an okay scorer at the NBA level so far but gets crushed at the other end. He needs a really, really good summer of working on his lateral quickness. 3rd season is a huge one for NBA 1st rounders. Development is over and the expectation becomes that time on the court is earned.
Ja'Kobe: -4.0/-1.5 (50th)
- We get our first major disagreement between the two ratings systems. BPM thinks he's not a NBA level player, EPM thinks he's an average NBA player. Honestly kind of see the argument for both, with his defensive ratings in both systems being fine, but BPM hated the poor shooting efficiency. On the whole, I take his rookie year over Gradey's last season and think there's better bones for a good role player here but lower ceiling than if Gradey is able to sort out his defensive shit. No strong opinions either way on him yet.
Mogbo: -1.8/-2.4 (32nd)
- So, he's fucking bad offensively, which is fine. But both systems think he's very good defensively and I'm prone to agree. A lot of development here needed to make him work on the offensive end. He has some interesting tools with his ability to bring the ball up court and his straight up okay playmaking. But the shooting is so, so bad. He'll get a lot of leash to sort that out though given how many lineup variations you can drop a defender as good as he's likely to be into.
Shead: -3.9/-1.8 (46th)
- Our 2nd relatively significant disagreement between metrics. EPM has him as a 57th percentile defender and BPM thinks he's bad so I'm prone to agree with EPM on him. Has looked significantly better and like a legitimate rotation guard over the last ~6 weeks. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a breakout player next year as long as by "breakout" we mean "unexpected average rotation player". Kind of similar to how Okai was a breakout player this year.
Battle: -2.1/-2.5 (29th)
- Was flashing quite a bit better in both metrics until somewhat recently when his shot stopped dropping. Kind of dogshit defensively, which is going to be a massive limiting factor regardless of how well he shoots. Unsigned and 2nd round type prospects don't get the rope 1st rounders do, next season is big for him if he makes the team out of camp at all.
The Bench:
Boucher: 2.3/1.4 (85th)
- If you don't love this guy, fuck you. That's it, that's the analysis. Sign this man.
Okai: -0.9/-1.4 (54th)
- Was quite a bit higher on both metrics before his injury. Looks very much like a functioning 3&D role player with maybe enough athleticism to be a bit more. I'd like to see his defensive QoC stats because he seemed to get our hardest matchups a lot and his metrics turned out pretty okai despite that.
Off season direction is going to be determined by ping pong balls. There's 3 main scenarios I see
Win (7.5%): Cooper Flagg becomes our immediate 6th man, but probably pushes his way into the starting lineup by mid season and leads to either RJ accepting a bench role or us finding him a new home, with Ingram at the 2, Flagg at the 3, Scottie the 4. It's unlikely, but likely enough to address as a possibility. Our needs would remain what they are now: 3&D bench players, maybe another stretch 4/5 type guy.
Move up to 2-3-4 (24%): Either Harper or Edgecomb imo. I struggle to see Ace Bailey as a Raptor over Edgecomb if we're forced to pick between the two. Both are probably high end of the bench players for us next season, and require no major reshuffling. Either of these two make for some interesting questions inside the organization about Gravy and RJ. Needs would remain 3&D but probably with more of a focus on long bois version at the 3-4-5
Stay at 7, or move down to 8-9 (58%): Tre Johnson has moved up to 6 in a lot of mocks and I think that's likely where he stays in the draft. If he falls, great, take him. But if he doesn't (or we end up worse than 7th) I'm a bit worried about it, but I keep seeing too much smoke surrounding Maluach from Duke. He's huge, but he's going to be limited in the NBA to PR/dunker spot offensively, but he does look to maybe be an impact defender at the 5. I want to see his lane agility at the combine. Would be a great example of the tanking cautionary tale. It's really hard to be a smart NBA organization trying to be as bad on purpose as bad NBA organizations can manage just being themselves. Having everything possible go wrong this season and ending up with a limited rim runner for our efforts would be fucking hilarious. Fuck tanking.
UFA's of reasonable interest:
- Nickeil Alexander Walker: Great point of attack defender who can shoot the ball, also SGA's cousin...you know...if we're ever entertaining the idea of trying to do that thing we all quietly hope for inside.
- De'Anthony Melton: Elite point of attack defender who can hit a 3. Coming back off of an injury.
- Luke Kennard: Elite elite shooter, just a good offensive player all around and would work well with our primary ball handlers. You can't leave the dude open, you can't cheat off of him. Has defensive limitations, but overall a high level role player who should be plug and play given how well Scottie and Brandon pass the ball.
- Larry Nance: Big who can shoot the open 3 and defend well
Team looks like it's going to end up in the low 30's for wins, which given the injuries is probably a decent showing and suggests that .500ish was achieveable with a bit of luck.
BPM/EPM (EPM Percentile)
The Core:
Scottie: 2.6/1.6 (87th)
- Not necessarily a disappointing season, but not the step forward we were looking for either, especially at the offensive end. He definitely flexed some "Super Draymond" skills in the 2nd half, but whether he'll ever be even a passible primary scorer is definitely up in the air. The 3 point shooting just isn't coming along and it might be time to get him away from above the break. He can probably develop into an average corner 3 shooter for spacing and I'm still bullish on the mid range game becoming a legit weapon. Obviously gifted in transition. On the defensive side, some encouraging steps forward on the ball to go with his already well above average help defense. Finishing in the 91st percentile in defensive impact on team that will finish ~16th in defensive rating suggests that he can probably anchor an elite defence when he's finished developing.
Quickley: 2.2/2.4 (92nd)
- Fucked up, injury plagued season but if you're looking for more reason to be bullish on this group moving forward, here you go. If he had qualified, BPM would have him among the top 30 players offensively and offensive EPM has him rated similar, ahead of Cade Cunningham, tied with Jah Morant, right behind Tyler Herro, etc. He's putting up the type of offensive impacts he did while sheltered on the Knicks bench, and if he can play 65+ next season is probably giving fringe all star type impacts.
RJ: 0.6/0.0 (71st)
- Another weird development year that makes it hard to gauge what he is moving forward. Efficiency struggled, which dragged down some of his offensive metrics overall (OEPM for example has him a 79th percentile offensive player, which is pretty okay) but some of that is from the stretch we used him as a lead guard while the rest of the team was injury crippled. What I think is pretty clear is that he's unlikely to turn into an offensive focal point for the team, he's too limited for that, but he can be a high high level role player on a good team imo. His defensive metrics suck, but I think a good chunk of that is team effects, though I don't think he'll ever be more than an average defender. He's probably the most likely to get traded out of this bunch though but there's no rush with 2 years of control left at a reasonable number.
Jake: 2.3/1.9 (89th)
- Just a real gud role player who does some things very well, has some obvious holes in his game but is a major net positive when you're trying to win games. We should probably be looking to extend him, with only one year guaranteed beyond this season and a player option after that. It doesn't sound like he wants to go anywhere else and he's probably got 2-3 years of peak Jake left anyway.
The Kids:
Gravy: -3.3/-2.6 (27th)
- A step forward from a pretty shit rookie season, but there's a long way to go before he's anything more than a back of the bench guy imo. EPM has him in the 3rd percentile defensively and aside from showing a bit more defensive awareness and a better flair for defensive playmaking at times, he was pure garbage on the defensive end the vast majority of the games that I watched. He can't keep his shadow in front of himself at this point and it's so bad as to be fatal to his NBA career if he doesn't sort this shit out. No one cares in the organization yet because we weren't trying to win games yet. But he's only an okay scorer at the NBA level so far but gets crushed at the other end. He needs a really, really good summer of working on his lateral quickness. 3rd season is a huge one for NBA 1st rounders. Development is over and the expectation becomes that time on the court is earned.
Ja'Kobe: -4.0/-1.5 (50th)
- We get our first major disagreement between the two ratings systems. BPM thinks he's not a NBA level player, EPM thinks he's an average NBA player. Honestly kind of see the argument for both, with his defensive ratings in both systems being fine, but BPM hated the poor shooting efficiency. On the whole, I take his rookie year over Gradey's last season and think there's better bones for a good role player here but lower ceiling than if Gradey is able to sort out his defensive shit. No strong opinions either way on him yet.
Mogbo: -1.8/-2.4 (32nd)
- So, he's fucking bad offensively, which is fine. But both systems think he's very good defensively and I'm prone to agree. A lot of development here needed to make him work on the offensive end. He has some interesting tools with his ability to bring the ball up court and his straight up okay playmaking. But the shooting is so, so bad. He'll get a lot of leash to sort that out though given how many lineup variations you can drop a defender as good as he's likely to be into.
Shead: -3.9/-1.8 (46th)
- Our 2nd relatively significant disagreement between metrics. EPM has him as a 57th percentile defender and BPM thinks he's bad so I'm prone to agree with EPM on him. Has looked significantly better and like a legitimate rotation guard over the last ~6 weeks. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a breakout player next year as long as by "breakout" we mean "unexpected average rotation player". Kind of similar to how Okai was a breakout player this year.
Battle: -2.1/-2.5 (29th)
- Was flashing quite a bit better in both metrics until somewhat recently when his shot stopped dropping. Kind of dogshit defensively, which is going to be a massive limiting factor regardless of how well he shoots. Unsigned and 2nd round type prospects don't get the rope 1st rounders do, next season is big for him if he makes the team out of camp at all.
The Bench:
Boucher: 2.3/1.4 (85th)
- If you don't love this guy, fuck you. That's it, that's the analysis. Sign this man.
Okai: -0.9/-1.4 (54th)
- Was quite a bit higher on both metrics before his injury. Looks very much like a functioning 3&D role player with maybe enough athleticism to be a bit more. I'd like to see his defensive QoC stats because he seemed to get our hardest matchups a lot and his metrics turned out pretty okai despite that.
Off season direction is going to be determined by ping pong balls. There's 3 main scenarios I see
Win (7.5%): Cooper Flagg becomes our immediate 6th man, but probably pushes his way into the starting lineup by mid season and leads to either RJ accepting a bench role or us finding him a new home, with Ingram at the 2, Flagg at the 3, Scottie the 4. It's unlikely, but likely enough to address as a possibility. Our needs would remain what they are now: 3&D bench players, maybe another stretch 4/5 type guy.
Move up to 2-3-4 (24%): Either Harper or Edgecomb imo. I struggle to see Ace Bailey as a Raptor over Edgecomb if we're forced to pick between the two. Both are probably high end of the bench players for us next season, and require no major reshuffling. Either of these two make for some interesting questions inside the organization about Gravy and RJ. Needs would remain 3&D but probably with more of a focus on long bois version at the 3-4-5
Stay at 7, or move down to 8-9 (58%): Tre Johnson has moved up to 6 in a lot of mocks and I think that's likely where he stays in the draft. If he falls, great, take him. But if he doesn't (or we end up worse than 7th) I'm a bit worried about it, but I keep seeing too much smoke surrounding Maluach from Duke. He's huge, but he's going to be limited in the NBA to PR/dunker spot offensively, but he does look to maybe be an impact defender at the 5. I want to see his lane agility at the combine. Would be a great example of the tanking cautionary tale. It's really hard to be a smart NBA organization trying to be as bad on purpose as bad NBA organizations can manage just being themselves. Having everything possible go wrong this season and ending up with a limited rim runner for our efforts would be fucking hilarious. Fuck tanking.
UFA's of reasonable interest:
- Nickeil Alexander Walker: Great point of attack defender who can shoot the ball, also SGA's cousin...you know...if we're ever entertaining the idea of trying to do that thing we all quietly hope for inside.
- De'Anthony Melton: Elite point of attack defender who can hit a 3. Coming back off of an injury.
- Luke Kennard: Elite elite shooter, just a good offensive player all around and would work well with our primary ball handlers. You can't leave the dude open, you can't cheat off of him. Has defensive limitations, but overall a high level role player who should be plug and play given how well Scottie and Brandon pass the ball.
- Larry Nance: Big who can shoot the open 3 and defend well
wiseguy1
Well-known member
Toronto had been the league’s best defensive team, yes, its best, in the 18 games since the all-star break before Friday,
WTF?
torontosun.com
WTF?
Raptors a defensive juggernaut despite lowly record
Teams 20 games under .500 usually aren't anything close to passable defensively, but this year's Toronto Raptors are an exception.
torontosun.com
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Toronto had been the league’s best defensive team, yes, its best, in the 18 games since the all-star break before Friday,
WTF?
Raptors a defensive juggernaut despite lowly record
Teams 20 games under .500 usually aren't anything close to passable defensively, but this year's Toronto Raptors are an exception.
Yup.
It's moved them up from being dogshit overall on the year to mid tier. I know I'm usually pretty bullish on what the team is capable of, but if this carries over into next year and injuries are less of an issue next year, they might chase 50 wins. The only lineups clearly better than ours now are Cleveland, Boston, & New York. Everyone else, it becomes a matter of health, fit, etc.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
And with the 7th pick in the 2025 NBA draft, the Raptors select Khaman Maluach from Duke University.
