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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

MyNameIsJonas said:
I still dont necessarily hate trading Teo and Lourdes a year before they walk or get extensions i dont want to hand out.

The issue was trading a top 5 prospect in baseball for a elite OF4.
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How many years they have left shouldn't matter to a team trying to win now.

I'm good with moving on from either or both, but then you have to end up with an outfield that is better and not just different
 
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MindzEye said:
How many years they have left shouldn't matter to a team trying to win now.

I'm good with moving on from either or both, but then you have to end up with an outfield that is better and not just different
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fair enough

should have fucking paid Nimmo and dealt a C for a different position elsewhere.
 
Definitely looking like a bad trade right now. It made sense to move the pieces they did, but gotta get something good if you're going to move Moreno.

Varsho's defense is great, and I'm sure they thought he'd play more center, but the bat is just not there.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
fair enough

should have fucking paid Nimmo and dealt a C for a different position elsewhere.
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My preference at the time was keeping Teo, moving him to LF, Springer to RF and then spending in trade on a good CF (or sure, just spend the money on Nimmo & play him there like the Mets do and deal with the below average D) though in hindsight, KK would have turned out as a solid enough option if we struck out on going after someone with a bit more upside. I think I remember some of y'all mentioning Bellinger at the time too as well.

Fwiw I think if Teo stays here, there's no first half slump and no weirdo home/away splits (he's got a 97 wRC+ in Seattle, 123 on the road) and he's rocking his customary 120-130 wRC+ stick. The Dome is a much more friendly home hitting environment than Safeco is and his below average RF glove probably grades as average in LF.

Then turn around and take those assets you saved by not addressing LF fucking defence and go get a star at 2B, or SS and move Bo to 2B.
 
MindzEye said:
My preference at the time was keeping Teo, moving him to LF, Springer to RF and then spending in trade on a good CF (or sure, just spend the money on Nimmo & play him there like the Mets do and deal with the below average D) though in hindsight, KK would have turned out as a solid enough option if we struck out on going after someone with a bit more upside. I think I remember some of y'all mentioning Bellinger at the time too as well.

Fwiw I think if Teo stays here, there's no first half slump and no weirdo home/away splits (he's got a 97 wRC+ in Seattle, 123 on the road) and he's rocking his customary 120-130 wRC+ stick. The Dome is a much more friendly home hitting environment than Safeco is and his below average RF glove probably grades as average in LF.

Then turn around and take those assets you saved by not addressing LF fucking defence and go get a star at 2B, or SS and move Bo to 2B.
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You'd need to shore up the bullpen if you do that, since Swanson has been a nice piece.

There are some other parts too. Teo makes more than the other guys, so if you don't do the Teo deal, you probably don't have money to sign Belt. Although you could just use Teo as DH and still do the KK and Varsho moves too, and basically all you need is the bullpen help.

Knowing what you know, the smartest move obviously would have been to ransom Kirk and get a real stud. If Kirk is on the table, then suddenly you aim a lot higher in talent you ask for in return.
 
UWHabs said:
You'd need to shore up the bullpen if you do that, since Swanson has been a nice piece.
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Still make a trade with Seattle for Swanson if you like Swanson. Gurriel plus something else if the really want a corner OF, or heaven forbid....trade prospects (who aren't Moreno...) for him.

UWHabs said:
There are some other parts too. Teo makes more than the other guys, so if you don't do the Teo deal, you probably don't have money to sign Belt.
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Or don't sign the 34 yr old #3-4 pitcher to a 20 million dollar deal until he's 36 and find a 2 WAR starting pitcher somewhere else.

I mean, part of my issue with these twits is that they've roster built themselves into a fucking corner with 30 million (and now 50 imo with Bassitt) of damaged, shit, or mediocre rotation arms and then another 7.3 million in retained salary on their stupid Randal Grichuk contract and the whole Anthony Bass fiasco.

UWHabs said:
Knowing what you know, the smartest move obviously would have been to ransom Kirk and get a real stud. If Kirk is on the table, then suddenly you aim a lot higher in talent you ask for in return.
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Yeah, I think this was the play. But I don't think it took tremendous foresight to look at the 5'8 260+ pound guy coming off of an all star season (but with a big 2nd half drop off) and think to yourself that unless he really figures out how to take care of his body, he's going to struggle to give you consistent performances. He's good, and I'm not saying to punt because he likes cake. But if there was a move out there to get a star level player, I think that was always the play and then go Jansen-Moreno at C.
 
MindzEye said:
Still make a trade with Seattle for Swanson if you like Swanson. Gurriel plus something else if the really want a corner OF, or heaven forbid....trade prospects (who aren't Moreno...) for him.



Or don't sign the 34 yr old #3-4 pitcher to a 20 million dollar deal until he's 36 and find a 2 WAR starting pitcher somewhere else.

I mean, part of my issue with these twits is that they've roster built themselves into a fucking corner with 30 million (and now 50 imo with Bassitt) of damaged, shit, or mediocre rotation arms and then another 7.3 million in retained salary on their stupid Randal Grichuk contract and the whole Anthony Bass fiasco.



Yeah, I think this was the play. But I don't think it took tremendous foresight to look at the 5'8 260+ pound guy coming off of an all star season (but with a big 2nd half drop off) and think to yourself that unless he really figures out how to take care of his body, he's going to struggle to give you consistent performances. He's good, and I'm not saying to punt because he likes cake. But if there was a move out there to get a star level player, I think that was always the play and then go Jansen-Moreno at C.
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20m is the price of a 2 war SP these days other than taking a wild flyer on a guy and praying.

Kirk's been better in the 2nd half this year, at least. Still hope for him obviously.

Atkins has to go this off-season though. I've been willing to give him some leeway over the years, but st some point enough is enough. Last year and this year just end up as wasted years. And then whoever is responsible for Vlad sucking should be fired too. If the team can get some bouncebacks from the guys who struggled this year, they don't have to blow up and rebuild. But the team is coming up on some decisions around guys like Vlad and Bo.
 
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