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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

Since the deadline:

C Alejandro 78pa, 176wrc+, 10.8war650
CF Bateman 70pa, 117wrc+, 6.5war650
SS Gimenez 71pa, 108wrc+, 6.4war650
3B Okamoto 80pa, 87wrc+, 0.8war650
LF Straw 64pa, 81wrc+, 2.0war650
1B Guerrero 51pa, 73wrc+, 0.0war650
RF Lukes 79pa, 64wrc+, 0.8war650
DH Springer 64pa, 64wrc+, -2.0war650
2B Clement 77pa, 63wrc+, -0.8war650

UT McAdoo 44pa, 125wrc+, 4.4war650
OF Sanchez 45pa, 112wrc+, 0.0war650
IF Smith 33pa, 121wrc+, 5.9war650
C Valenzuela 30pa, 40wrc+, 0.0war650

UT Schneider 8pa, 125wrc+, 0.0war650
OF Cameron 18pa, 113wrc+, 0.0war650
IF Urias 4pa, 102wrc+, 0.0war650
C


Maybe it's time to ride the "bench" players.
 
since deadline


SP Cease 4gms, 6.3ip/gm, 52era-, 69fip-, 77xfip-, 6.8awar32
SP Bieber 4gms, 6.1ip/gm, 72era-, 87fip-, 95xfip-, 4.8awar32
SP Soriano 4gms, 5.3ip/gm, 102era-, 86fip-, 100xfip-, 2.4awar32
SP Yesavage 1gms, 2.0ip/gm, 0era-, 110fip-, 183xfip-, 1.6awar32
SP Scherzer 4gms, 4.8ip/gm, 135era-, 127fip-, 138xfip-, 0.0awar32

SP Taillon 2gms, 4.0ip/gm, 82era-, 115fip-, 118xfip-, 2.4awar32
SP Arrighetti 1gms, 3.3ip/gm, 196era-, 152fip-, 125xfip-, -4.8awar32
SP Dallas 1gms, 3.0ip/gm, 435era-, 225fip-, 159xfip-, -8.0awar32

just two killer killer late season injuries here. really too bad. not much to do but hope and pray here that we can get through the next couple weeks and both yesavage and bieber come back asap.


RP Varland 9gms, 1.1ip/gm, 45era-, 76fip-, 78xfip-, 1.8awar65
RP Rogers 11gms, 1.0ip/gm, 77era-, 124fip-, 133xfip-, 0.0awar65
RP Miles 9gms, 0.9ip/gm, 52era-, 60fip-, 99xfip-, 1.8awar65
RP Fluharty 12gms, 0.8ip/gm, 0era-, 79fip-, 136xfip-, 2.9awar65
RP Fisher 13gms, 1.0ip/gm, 17era-, 118fip-, 134xfip-, 1.0awar65
RP Little 11gms, 0.9ip/gm, 70era-, 97fip-, 80xfip-, 0.3awar65
RP Sewald 4gms, 1.0ip/gm, 0era-, 62fip-, 117xfip-, 1.2awar65
RP SWR 4gms, 1.8ip/gm, 59era-, 93fip-, 86xfip-, 0.4awar65

RP Tiedemann 1gms, 1.7ip/gm, 131era-, 17fip-, 60xfip-, 3.3awar65
RP Waldron 4gms, 1.1ip/gm, 251era-, 74fip-, 150xfip-, -1.6awar65
RP Estrada 4gms, 0.9ip/gm, 178era-, 152fip-, 203xfip-, -3.3awar65
RP Lee 4gms, 1.2ip/gm, 187era-, 191fip-, 173xfip-, -4.9awar65


We actually probably have the right 8 relievers up with the team right now, and they've been pitching very very well. (as long as we consider Dallas a fill in SP/bulk guy rather than an actual RP).

The next guy up should probably be Ricky, but tbh the 8 guys here deserve to be up here at the moment.
 
A number of pitchers including Zach Wheeler, Merrill Kelly and Alex Cobb came back from thoracic outlet surgery to pitch again. I think it's relatively new so we don't have a lot of data but it's absolutely possible Yimi can return next season. His age makes it tougher but these guys were all older guys too.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
He's a perfectly fine starter, but his spot is not locked in, and he can also move to the bench and still play 5/7

If you dont think they need offensive upgrades, just say so.
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I mean, they need offensive upgrades if Vladdy is going to be a 10 HR guy going forward, that's for sure.

But when he was elite, it made the rest of the lineup much better. Even without him, several of the starters are still good. But missing a key bat in Barger all season, and having Springer get injured and regress, and having Vlad in a perpetual slump makes us look bad.

They key areas to upgrade for me are the OF and DH. I love Springer and would be thrilled if he wanted to return as a spare. But we need a real DH that can hit 30+ HRs. And I want Barger as the everyday RF, am very intrigued by Bateman as CF, so a heavy hitting LF would be my target.

You don't need to upgrade every position. Kirk, Clement, Okamoto as starters, and Lukes and Valenzuela as backups, are all very good. Gimmy honestly doesn't bother me, but sure, if you can get a much better hitting and not too much worse defensively guy, go for it. And the rest of it all falls on Vladdy's shoulders, if he's going to be a ghost or an impact hitter.
 
if Clement is one of your "very good hitters" your team is fucked.

A guys who gets a lot of plate appearances and does very average things with them, will invariably compile nice looking counting stats.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
I mean, they need offensive upgrades if Vladdy is going to be a 10 HR guy going forward, that's for sure.

But when he was elite, it made the rest of the lineup much better. Even without him, several of the starters are still good. But missing a key bat in Barger all season, and having Springer get injured and regress, and having Vlad in a perpetual slump makes us look bad.

They key areas to upgrade for me are the OF and DH. I love Springer and would be thrilled if he wanted to return as a spare. But we need a real DH that can hit 30+ HRs. And I want Barger as the everyday RF, am very intrigued by Bateman as CF, so a heavy hitting LF would be my target.

You don't need to upgrade every position. Kirk, Clement, Okamoto as starters, and Lukes and Valenzuela as backups, are all very good. Gimmy honestly doesn't bother me, but sure, if you can get a much better hitting and not too much worse defensively guy, go for it. And the rest of it all falls on Vladdy's shoulders, if he's going to be a ghost or an impact hitter.
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If you're willing to move Lukes to the bench too i dont get why you are arguing with me.

Corner OF is a spot to add a big bat, ideally a RHH

Bringing Springer back is a tough ask, he offers no value as a bench bat as he cnt play a position.

Santander is probably the DH cause of his contract, and if he dies or is shit, you probably have to look at Keys/Pinango or some other 4A bat with no defensive value. Not ideal
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
If you're willing to move Lukes to the bench too i dont get why you are arguing with me.

Corner OF is a spot to add a big bat, ideally a RHH

Bringing Springer back is a tough ask, he offers no value as a bench bat as he cnt play a position.

Santander is probably the DH cause of his contract, and if he dies or is shit, you probably have to look at Keys/Pinango or some other 4A bat with no defensive value. Not ideal
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I don't know if there is any argument.

This team got to within two outs of winning the WS. The only tangible loss was Bichette, but we added Okamoto. We added Cease, but now lost Gaus, who was inconsistent this year though. The team is more or less the same as the one that almost won it all. The biggest difference, by far, is the drop off in Vlad. If he stays shit, then there's probably nothing we can do other than hope for some crazy breakout shit from kids like Keyes and Parker.

If he returns to some kind of form, then I think that these players are mostly all good, and that Clement at 2B and Barger in RF are very good guys in those spots who will produce (again, Clement's WAR was 2x last year). You underrate both those guys. Lukes, I'm probably higher on than you because I think if he were an everyday guy in a Real Vlad powered lineup, he could hit 20 HRs and provide very good defense. But I'm content with him as the 4OF for sure if we land some big bat to go into LF.

Point is, I don't think we're that far off from being an upper echelon team again with what we've got, with some material upgrades at LF and DH. Even then, though, it all circles back to Vlad and which version we get.
 
CH1 said:
if Clement is one of your "very good hitters" your team is fucked.

A guys who gets a lot of plate appearances and does very average things with them, will invariably compile nice looking counting stats.
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It's not just a nice looking counting stat to have the 6th most hits in MLB.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
If you're willing to move Lukes to the bench too i dont get why you are arguing with me.

Corner OF is a spot to add a big bat, ideally a RHH

Bringing Springer back is a tough ask, he offers no value as a bench bat as he cnt play a position.

Santander is probably the DH cause of his contract, and if he dies or is shit, you probably have to look at Keys/Pinango or some other 4A bat with no defensive value. Not ideal
Click to expand...
If and a big IF ..... Vlad , Barger and Santander come back next and produce well team is legit

Seriously WTF is wrong with Vlad , he looks cooked and checked out
 
Even as a non baseball expert, I gasped when I read "Clement is one of the best hitters in the league." My goodness.

He's extremely clean and good looking so maybe he meant hitting on women and not hitting baseballs.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
I don't know if there is any argument.

This team got to within two outs of winning the WS. The only tangible loss was Bichette, but we added Okamoto. We added Cease, but now lost Gaus, who was inconsistent this year though. The team is more or less the same as the one that almost won it all. The biggest difference, by far, is the drop off in Vlad. If he stays shit, then there's probably nothing we can do other than hope for some crazy breakout shit from kids like Keyes and Parker.

If he returns to some kind of form, then I think that these players are mostly all good, and that Clement at 2B and Barger in RF are very good guys in those spots who will produce (again, Clement's WAR was 2x last year). You underrate both those guys. Lukes, I'm probably higher on than you because I think if he were an everyday guy in a Real Vlad powered lineup, he could hit 20 HRs and provide very good defense. But I'm content with him as the 4OF for sure if we land some big bat to go into LF.

Point is, I don't think we're that far off from being an upper echelon team again with what we've got, with some material upgrades at LF and DH. Even then, though, it all circles back to Vlad and which version we get.
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The biggest holes this year was Vlad not being anything close to Vlad and Springe not being anything close to Springer, the latter's production needs to be replaced externally.

I'd love to make a run at Randy/Seiya. Its the best bet. Make Lukes or Barger an OF4, and sign a RHH CF friend for Bateman as OF5.

The trick is making sure whichever of Barger/Lukes you send to the bench get 5/7 starts as a super utility.
 
Preston said:
Even as a non baseball expert, I gasped when I read "Clement is one of the best hitters in the league." My goodness.

He's extremely clean and good looking so maybe he meant hitting on women and not hitting baseballs.
Click to expand...
There are literally just 5 guys with more hits than him currently in the entire league.

You can make valid complaints about his walk rate, and sure it would be nice for every player to hit 30 homers, but apart from those two knocks, he's excellent.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
There are literally just 5 guys with more hits than him currently in the entire league.

You can make valid complaints about his walk rate, and sure it would be nice for every player to hit 30 homers, but apart from those two knocks, he's excellent.
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He as a sub 700 OPS, how in the fuck is that excellent.

When he was an elite glove ( last year) this production was a boon, currently its just okay with a league average fielder.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
He as a sub 700 OPS, how in the fuck is that excellent.

When he was an elite glove ( last year) this production was a boon, currently its just okay with a league average fielder.
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he's literally 3% below average offensive player. OPS is kinda whatever with how much offense (especially HR) are down this year. Looooove Erndog but he can't be your 3rd best hitter as a 97 WRC+ guy with OK defense.
 
Deckie007 said:
he's literally 3% below average offensive player. OPS is kinda whatever with how much offense (especially HR) are down this year. Looooove Erndog but he can't be your 3rd best hitter as a 97 WRC+ guy with OK defense.
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And a guy any serious team should have no issue turning into a super utility player. I’d be calling Lowe as a FA and be really curious about a Marte trade
 
LeafOfFaith said:
There are literally just 5 guys with more hits than him currently in the entire league.

You can make valid complaints about his walk rate, and sure it would be nice for every player to hit 30 homers, but apart from those two knocks, he's excellent.
Click to expand...

Those two knocks directly relate to on base % and slugging % which constitute 100% of what makes a hitter valuable
 
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