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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

manny said:
Sounds great, but why so terrible aside from 50 innings this season?

I mean, I’ll take the guy who has been good recently. But won’t count on Varland to be good in future years.
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He's been on prospect lists for a long time. Looking into it a little bit now, seems like it's probably lack of a 3rd pitch, he's got a good Fastball/Sinker combo but unless they're elite, you gotta have a 3rd pitch to start. Actually his curve is pretty good too, by stuff numbers. That might explain why they probably kept trying the starter thing too long with a "top" prospect in the org. HR/9 rates were horrific in the majors until this year, where he's been great in the pen.

Let's hope he can keep it up.
 
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I think the book on Varland is: he was a big-time prospect that they developed as a starter, but his stuff doesn't play there. It plays up big time as a reliever. I guess kinda like Hoffman.
 
I like what they did, don’t love it but it was a good deadline and solid moves. So I’ll give credit. They were still very reserved and calculated with their adds though, and probably got outbid easily. Yanks bullpen vastly improved, Astros, Mariners and Rangers got much better. Did we do enough to beat them now is the question…
 
These guys don't like losing their top end prospects, so they were probably never even on the table and thus we weren't even in on any of the bigger names. They clearly were on the hunt for bargain to fair exchanges (Dominquez), and high upside surprise payoffs (Bieber), and then must've really liked Varland a lot and felt they needed him and splurged last minute (without dipping into the top 5) for a guy that maybe most teams didn't even realize was available. At least that's my read.
 
Teams don't like to trade their top high-end prospects because they're so valuable when they hit. it's EXTREMELY difficult to win without homegrown stars - you get their rights for 6 years and don't have to pay them $300+ million. The data shows that peak athletic performance is around age 26, and as velocity increases, the league's been getting younger and younger. Smart teams are not stupid.

Dodgers have 2 stud prospects named Josue de Paula and Zyhir Hope, didn't move them. Philly didn't trade Andrew Painter or Aidan Miller. I could go around the league (except to SD)

And there's zero chance I'd trade Arjun Nimmala for either of these guys.


View: https://x.com/FiresideYankees/status/1950971573655183539


View: https://x.com/CubsZone/status/1950981580312252649
 
Who that got traded do we wish we got by trading a top 5 kid? We got the two relievers and the high upside starter. So which bat got traded that we wish we got?
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Who that got traded do we wish we got by trading a top 5 kid? We got the two relievers and the high upside starter. So which bat got traded that we wish we got?
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I would have taken Harrison Bader or Ramon Laureano over Ty France in a heartbeat

I dont understand why the Pirates didnt trade Tommy Pham, but i would have made a strongish play there
 
Yeah, as I said earlier, I think France was a consolation prize and/or throw in to improve the optics and make that deal happen. I think they whiffed on whichever bats they really targeted because they weren’t willing to pay up. But as just purely a bat off the bench, I’ll take him over Wagner for sure.
 
axlsalinger said:
Teams don't like to trade their top high-end prospects because they're so valuable when they hit. it's EXTREMELY difficult to win without homegrown stars - you get their rights for 6 years and don't have to pay them $300+ million. The data shows that peak athletic performance is around age 26, and as velocity increases, the league's been getting younger and younger. Smart teams are not stupid.

Dodgers have 2 stud prospects named Josue de Paula and Zyhir Hope, didn't move them. Philly didn't trade Andrew Painter or Aidan Miller. I could go around the league (except to SD)

And there's zero chance I'd trade Arjun Nimmala for either of these guys.


View: https://x.com/FiresideYankees/status/1950971573655183539


View: https://x.com/CubsZone/status/1950981580312252649
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Bingo , you need a mix of home grown cheap talent and spending in UFA to win

Guys like Barger potentially being an above MLer is what they need , can’t keep spending big bucks in free agency as your own source of adds
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Yeah, as I said earlier, I think France was a consolation prize and/or throw in to improve the optics and make that deal happen. I think they whiffed on whichever bats they really targeted because they weren’t willing to pay up. But as just purely a bat off the bench, I’ll take him over Wagner for sure.
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I mean im with Zeke, i would have preferred no bat with the message we belive in our guys, than whatever this is.

France has no value, neither negative or positive so he's not in the deal for optics. I saw that he absolutely mashes LH breaking pitches, which, i mean sure, must be blind to anything else though. Im guessing hes DFA'd by Sept 1
 
I’m as shatkins hating as they come and all aboard the trade all your prospects train, but don’t get the hate for their deadline.

Two relievers both having great years, they swung for the fences with Bieber. And
They kept their top prospects.
 
Fwiw, I don't hate their deadline, I just dislike their philosophy on what's valuable, what's too risky and how it shapes our FA and Deadline periods every year.

- Bieber is obviously a top of the rotation arm when healthy. But spending a really good pitching prospect who looks maybe MLB ready by next year on a guy who is another rehab tweak away from getting shut down from the year is just weird risk tolerance imo, and one they've shown with pitchers numerous times. We can't pay a top free agent reliever 12-14 million, but we can pay a formerly elite one rehabbing from an arm injury 8-10 million to sit out all fucking year no problem. This feels like that.

- Years of control just doesn't matter with relievers and though I like the concept of Varland, we almost definitely paid extra for "years of control" on the most volatile player type on the league, a reliever who magically appears to have figured it out at 27 yrs old...and no, he was also shit as a reliever last year after the transition from the rotation so it wasn't as simple as his stuff playing up out of the rotation. 9.87 ERA in 17ip as a reliever last year. I get what they were doing here, I just disagree again with how they determine what is risky and what isn't.

- Zero qualms with the Dominguez trade though. Sending an oldish prospect who stalled a tiny bit at AA as a 23 yr old and looks like a future pen arm, for a highish end pen arm for now is good business.
 
Yeah i like the Bieber add more than you, just cause Adrian Houser and Dustin May dont do anything for me, the SP market was weak and for that reason im okay on risky swing on Shane.

Fully agreed on Varland, like the player alot, hate the cost cause of the contract. I have heard they may want to turn him into a SP which makes me hate it less, but still, so volatile. Bednar and Doval went for less, just do that.

Dominguez could be amongst the best value of the entire deadline, and jumping early on the RP market was smart.

Still wanted a real RHH that could play 3B or OF. France cant hit, or field either spot. Genuinely baffling add, but i would give their deadline like a b+ or something
 
Yankees DFA'd Stroman.

For a team desperate for SP, they must hate him so much ( as did all his other teams) to not even consider that he might be decent
 
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