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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

Word is Ben Cherington ( Pirates GM) turned down Eduardo Tait in a deal for David Bednar and turned down many packages with higher rated prospects then the one he took from NYY.

This deal might not be on Ross. I cant forgive not going after Doval hard though and in the name of paying a high price for a controlled RP
 
Doval lost his job last year, got deemed "uncoachable", and was sent to the minors. They started this year with Walker closing and only after he faltered multiple times did they return Doval to closing... Then they traded him.

He is absolutely not a "sure thing".
 
I guess my issue with Bieber is that I don't love anything about it unless Bieber doesn't just revert to pre injury Bieber, but covid shortened super elite Bieber for a playoff run.

The season he blew up his elbow he was rocking a 4.83xERA and 3.86 FIP which is fine, but just fine. It's basically Berrios #3 starter type stuff and we paid a fairly similar price (depending on what you think about Austin Martin and SWR) except Berrios wasn't dead and had another year on his existing deal. In Bieber's case, the only reason he's here next season is if he 1) gets hurt again/never comes back or 2) comes back and sucks, so triggers his player option.

If he does come back as 2023 Bieber, okay, that's cool I guess but 6-8 regular season starts and playoff start...I don't like the idea of sending higher end prospects out the door for that when if you pay more, you get way more value.

I just don't see the value and risk playing nicely together at all and I never like the "well we forced ourself into this position by not managing our roster to compete before, so this was the best decision possible at the time because the rest of the market sucked" type excuse making.
 
RH Bednar 42gms, 0.9ip/gm, 56era-, 49fip-, 67xfip-, 1.9war/65
RH Varland 51gms, 1.0ip/gm, 50era-, 69fip-, 73xfip-, 1.5war/65
RH Dominguez 45gms, 1.0ip/gm, 77era-, 81fip-, 83xfip-, 0.8war/65
RH Doval 49gms, 1.0ip/gm, 77era-, 82fip-, 91xfip-, 0.6war/65
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Yankees DFA'd Stroman.

For a team desperate for SP, they must hate him so much ( as did all his other teams) to not even consider that he might be decent
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Now that's a guy who could probably extend his career by switchng to the pen. Losing that 2mph in velo over the last 2 seasons is killing him.
 
I’m happy with the deadline. Don’t like giving up Roden and France is useless, but the team is better and deeper now than they were a week ago. B+
 
manny said:
I’m happy with the deadline. Don’t like giving up Roden and France is useless, but the team is better and deeper now than they were a week ago. B+
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I’m more annoyed giving up Rojas. I don’t know if there was room for Loperfido and Roden and I understand keeping Joey Lopes
 
MindzEye said:
I guess my issue with Bieber is that I don't love anything about it unless Bieber doesn't just revert to pre injury Bieber, but covid shortened super elite Bieber for a playoff run.

The season he blew up his elbow he was rocking a 4.83xERA and 3.86 FIP which is fine, but just fine. It's basically Berrios #3 starter type stuff and we paid a fairly similar price (depending on what you think about Austin Martin and SWR) except Berrios wasn't dead and had another year on his existing deal. In Bieber's case, the only reason he's here next season is if he 1) gets hurt again/never comes back or 2) comes back and sucks, so triggers his player option.

If he does come back as 2023 Bieber, okay, that's cool I guess but 6-8 regular season starts and playoff start...I don't like the idea of sending higher end prospects out the door for that when if you pay more, you get way more value.

I just don't see the value and risk playing nicely together at all and I never like the "well we forced ourself into this position by not managing our roster to compete before, so this was the best decision possible at the time because the rest of the market sucked" type excuse making.
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Why isn't there a version of things where he does well and we resign him to a term deal?
 
Roden was always meh for me. Loperfido has been amazing at the plate.

Rojas definitely looks like he could be good. Khal too.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Roden was always meh for me. Loperfido has been amazing at the plate.

Rojas definitely looks like he could be good. Khal too.
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Loperfido was a lot worse in 150AB last year than Roden was in 100 this year. Loperfido’s hot steak this year is smaller than either of those samples.

Anyway, Roden is on the Twins now and my money would be on him outhitting Loperfido, France, and probably several other Jays over the next two months.

But again, who cares if they win.
 
The thing about Bieber is that he was a semi-elite SP for years becoming less effective his last couple of seasons due to a 90-91 mph fastball. He made it work with good secondaries and great command. Then he goes to Driveline prior to last season, and shows up in camp with a 94 mph fastball, 15 K/9 in his first 2 starts ... then tears the ligament in his elbow.

The super encouraging thing right now is that in his rehab outings, he's once again hitting 94 mph, and has 21 strikeouts and 1 walk in 11.1 IP!

There is always risk in anyone coming back from TJ, so it's weird for the "why don't they take risks?" crowd to question this move, but he's also a guy with a brand-new ligament in his throwing arm, and still only 30 years old. My main concern is that control can be wonky for a lot of guys their first year back from TJ, but so far it hasn't been an issue for him at all. Gotta hope he can keep this rolling in the bigs...
 
We had too many OF, so moving one out does not surprise me at all. I guess I was a little higher on Roden, probably based on floor rather than upside though. Didn't help that Lopes looked pretty bad last year. He looks great now though. We still have Clase too, so I'm not particularly upset about moving one of these dudes.
 
MindzEye said:
Because the odds that we, with our payroll structure, are the highest bidder on Bieber this winter probably aren't great.
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Would a handful of starts, even if they're great, get him some big money term deal this offseason and make everyone forget about the last two years? I think he'll be limited no matter what happens here, and that he'll probably enjoy being on this team (as most players we've acquired have) and be inclined to sign if we want him. And you know that if that happens, Shatkings would get him signed to a non-crazy deal, that much is assured.
 
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