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OT: World Politics

Montana said:
I only bring this up because it was in the Shin Bet doc I watched last night, and was shocked when this scene came up… I’m not sure if it’s any better or worse to be indoctrinated to scream “With Blood & Fire, we’ll throw Rabin out!”…but I’m guessing they’d have also been taught some pretty hateful anti-Palestinian stuff as well.



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…then when looking for an isolated clip of the above, this comes up…



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I don’t post any of that to imply it’s all the same (those Palestinians were talking about learning it IN school)…..but only to show the far-right has some pretty sick zealots of their own, willing to teach their own kid some hateful shit.
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Well, just like how we said the other day that we certainly can't say ALL Palestinians adopt and approve of the Hamas mindset (although 60% of them admitting outright that they do is somewhat telling), we can also say that there are surely many zealot Israelis who have had their fill of terror attacks and lost lives and believe in a tougher, more aggressive approach.

But the difference is, and you can see it in some of the kids' responses in the video (where frankly the interviewer is egging on children - "How many people do YOU want to kill, kiddo??"), the Israeli mindset is generally defensive in nature. The girl who is initially shown saying she wants to kill Arabs, appears later in the video to say that she pictures Arabs trying to kill her and she wants to avoid losing her life. One of those boys is living out his GI Joe fantasy on camera, and who knows, maybe he grows to become someone unfit to serve. But, having grown up in the faith (and hebrew private school all the way till university), I can tell you there is literally zero in the teachings that ever even remotely get close to pushing a philosophy of killing Arabs, cleansing the motherland, none of that shit.

The faith is all about living in peace and trying to co-exist with the world. Granted, this was my upbringing in Toronto, not Tel Aviv, but still, all the Jews I know to a man, even right now (my IG is flooded with posts since the weekend) STILL don't push the idea of killing innocent Palestinians or wiping out a religion or anything like that. The focus is entirely on erasing Hamas from existence, trying to spotlight people and groups who are outwardly supporting the terrorism, trying to open eyes as to undercurrents of antisemitism - like, where was any interest in the "other side" on 9/11? Not a peep about that, yet there's actually an "other side" here that justifies the barbarism we witnessed according to some. This "death to Israel" shit, which was chanted by crowds in a parade in Iran on Sunday (even in Sydney ffs!) is the philosophy that underpins the Palestinian upbringing generally speaking, but there is nothing remotely reciprocal from the Jewish side. Zero. And that's the difference, at least if we're comparing the general population of each.
 
Montana said:


While I get what she’s saying, and would agree with it completely at various times through history where I think non-retaliation could have gotten them through the peace process….to the point of then having Palestinian forces & intelligence on their side to pound Hamas.

….but in this instance as fucked as it is, i think civilian casualties are acceptable collateral if you have good intelligence that you can take out key cogs in Hamas & military installations that greatly reduce the risk of more attacks in the short term.
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The problem is, Hamas deliberately crams its military installations in areas with civilians specifically to deter Israel from retaliating or denouncing Israel as murderous if it does retaliate. Win win for them. Sick and twisted. Which country, especially after the weekend massacre, announces to the people of the enemy that it will be bombing areas and telling them to evacuate so that they don't get harmed? Sadly, there's no other option for them in this conflict, as you basically said.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
The problem is, Hamas deliberately crams its military installations in areas with civilians specifically to deter Israel from retaliating or denouncing Israel as murderous if it does retaliate. Win win for them. Sick and twisted. Which country, especially after the weekend massacre, announces to the people of the enemy that it will be bombing areas and telling them to evacuate so that they don't get harmed? Sadly, there's no other option for them in this conflict, as you basically said.
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In the shin bet doc, they discuss wrestling with this sort of thing and they talk about this one instance where they had a “dream team” of Hamas higher ups, so they plan to hit it with a 1 ton bomb once everyone is inside, killing all of them….but when they sent it to the higher up’s for approval it was denied for fear of fallout over civilians being killed, and the grief they received over a recent operation where 3-4 peoples with the terrorist were killed…

after lots of going back and forth they finally talk them into using a 1/4 ton bomb…..they drop it and it penetrates only the top floor, allowing every last one of them to escape…took them years & years to finally many of them down, and a few still remained at large at the time of the doc.
 
Montana said:
In the shin bet doc, they discuss wrestling with this sort of thing and they talk about this one instance where they had a “dream team” of Hamas higher ups, so they plan to hit it with a 1 ton bomb once everyone is inside, killing all of them….but when they sent it to the higher up’s for approval it was denied for fear of fallout over civilians being killed, and the grief they received over a recent operation where 3-4 peoples with the terrorist were killed…

after lots of going back and forth they finally talk them into using a 1/4 ton bomb…..they drop it and it penetrates only the top floor, allowing every last one of them to escape…took them years & years to finally many of them down, and a few still remained at large at the time of the doc.
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That's just it, there is this moral side to things that definitely plays a strong part in the Jewish strategy process which actually hurts their objectives, like that example. It sucks. I'd also try to go for the measured approach, but then look, it does nothing but turn a building into a convertible.

At some point (maybe now), I do think they'll feel pushed too far, too vulnerable, and no longer having any appetite for further terrorism that they might throw the baby out with the bathwater in military operations. Never completely, but like you sort of intimated above, the loss of SOME civilian life may be deemed more necessary than before if it means eradicating on ongoing existential threat.
 
Hamas is terrible at a lot of things… governing, building public infrastructure, keeping their people safe etc. but they are great at terror.

making clear Jews children aren’t safe in their own homes. And Israel isn’t enough, now calling for an international day of terror for Jews. Mission accomplished.
 
LeafGm said:
I honestly didn’t even get that far in terms of looking at any of his articles.

This style of posting always blows my mind. Similar to what we saw with guys like BeLeafer or WingedWheel. They’ll only coyly hint at what their shitty opinions are, while steadfastly refusing to honestly and plainly state them or engage in a discussion.

Then they bury you in a pile of garbage articles or YouTube links and expect that people will take the time to actually wade through it all when they’ve done absolutely nothing to demonstrate they’re someone worth taking seriously.
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Nice summary
 
leafman101 said:
Hamas is terrible at a lot of things… governing, building public infrastructure, keeping their people safe etc. but they are great at terror.

making clear Jews children aren’t safe in their own homes. And Israel isn’t enough, now calling for an international day of terror for Jews. Mission accomplished.
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Cops were called to chat today because of threats made against students. Think there were three arrests.
 
Does that mean 250 of thee hostages (aka: all of them?), or would this have been mainly military folks overtaken on the 7th?
 
Montana said:
Does that mean 250 of thee hostages (aka: all of them?), or would this have been mainly military folks overtaken on the 7th?
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The numbers are confusing, because initially they said 130 hostages, but then it was early and there were so many missing, so it must've been more.

I'd be surprised if they kept all of them in one place. But how amazing would that be?
 
Pretty incredible they took 26 of them alive….I know they’re pro’s, but showing that kind of restraint kinda blows me away.

Great demonstration of not lowering yourself to their level (which they were clearly attempting to entice)…..hopefully get some worthwhile intel out of them now.
 
911 Begets 911 Begets 911.

Palestine has got the shaft from the get go, with Americas Big Stick as enforcer.

75 Years.

So now Israel is mowing the grass, because it’s their 911.

The US of A ploughed through the majority the Middle East after their 911 so here we go again.

Then it will all be quiet because we will all be dead from the new, new 911, unless we find a better way.

The curse of oil will get us eliminated through climate change if war dudes are useless, which is usually the way.

The world has to agree to agree.

These are dark times.

Be nice.

Stop the madness.

Its Peace, Love Happiness Time.
Thats it
I will shut up.
 
Montana said:
Pretty incredible they took 26 of them alive….I know they’re pro’s, but showing that kind of restraint kinda blows me away.

Great demonstration of not lowering yourself to their level (which they were clearly attempting to entice)…..hopefully get some worthwhile intel out of them now.
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Yeah, I'm guessing those were the guys that ran outside at the end, threw their weapons to the floor and got face down in the dirt begging for their lives. And the Israelis will take them and prosecute them, which is very different than what their counterparts would do if the roles were reversed.

Eliminating 60 of them sounds great, but how many more cockroaches might there be out there, a couple of thousand?
 
KiwiCanuck said:
911 Begets 911 Begets 911.

Palestine has got the shaft from the get go, with Americas Big Stick as enforcer.

75 Years.

So now Israel is mowing the grass, because it’s their 911.

The US of A ploughed through the majority the Middle East after their 911 so here we go again.

Then it will all be quiet because we will all be dead from the new, new 911, unless we find a better way.

The curse of oil will get us eliminated through climate change if war dudes are useless, which is usually the way.

The world has to agree to agree.

These are dark times.

Be nice.

Stop the madness.

Its Peace, Love Happiness Time.
Thats it
I will shut up.
Click to expand...
Hey, maybe if fucking psychopaths out there don't cause 9/11 events for nations, there would be a lot more of the peace, love, and happiness that you crave in the world? Just a theory.
 
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