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The ****ing Offseason Thread - 2016

sigh, not only did you use the two terms interchangeably yourself (seriously, repeatedly in your very own words), but you also claimed that I had a "problem" with zone adjusted numbers, which is weird since I never mentioned it.

as an aside, you can just ask anyone here whether I value zonestart adjustments or not. though since you follow my paced stats post religiously, you should know that already.

though of course, zone starts are meaningless to goalies anyways.

but if you're going to force me to spoonfeed you, the stat you're actually looking for - the one you claim charron and steve "the only blogger that didn't get an nhl job" burtch favor - you're actually looking for war-on-ice's shot quality adjusted save percentage, which is unfortunately no longer available.

and since you seem to respect Burtch so much, you should realize that he has spent more time illustrating how great reimer's numbers are than anyone.

and hey, before you act all insulted and walk away in a huff, again just reread our little convo here today and ask yourself who was the prick.
 
zeke said:
when I use the Starter label I'm talking about usage - playing everyday and not just in a sheltered backup role.
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This becomes a bit meaningless though without some sort of criteria. Every 1B in the league spends fair sized portions of the season not being sheltered, that in itself isn't really "starter" usage. I think you're being way too liberal with the title "starter" here.


In his rookie year, he was the starting goalie in the AHL and then came up midway through the year and was used as the starter the rest of the way. 52 total games that year.
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Not sure what his AHL usage has to do with anything, unless you're trying to argue that he can infact physically handle a legitimate starters workload, which you just explicitly said you weren't doing.


When i differentiate between starter and backup i'm talking about unsheltered vs sheltered, not health.
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Well that's an interesting interpretation of what a starter is. Is sitting in the press box because you're not durable enough to play a legit starter's role not the ultimate sheltering of a player?

If you want to separate durability from the definition of a what an actual starting goaltender is, have at it, but I think you'll find it an unpopular stance to take. There's a reason why terms like 1A/1B have become a common part of the hockey lexicon.
 
I personally think Andersen is much better than Gibson. Gibson stinks IMO and Bernier has a legit chance to overtake him as a starter this year. Odds are against it, but it's not impossible in any way.

But Andersen's durability and lack of a track record concerns me, no doubt.
 
MindzEye said:
This becomes a bit meaningless though without some sort of criteria. Every 1B in the league spends fair sized portions of the season not being sheltered, that in itself isn't really "starter" usage. I think you're being way too liberal with the title "starter" here.




Not sure what his AHL usage has to do with anything, unless you're trying to argue that he can infact physically handle a legitimate starters workload, which you just explicitly said you weren't doing.




Well that's an interesting interpretation of what a starter is. Is sitting in the press box because you're not durable enough to play a legit starter's role not the ultimate sheltering of a player?

If you want to separate durability from the definition of a what an actual starting goaltender is, have at it, but I think you'll find it an unpopular stance to take. There's a reason why terms like 1A/1B have become a common part of the hockey lexicon.
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point is twofold:

1. durability and usage are different factors
2. his three good seasons his game totals were limited by factors other than his durability - one he wasn't called up fast enough, the other was lockout shortened, and the third he had to wait for an inferior goalie to flop again before getting his chance.

But still, I get that he has to show he can do it still.

But that is still imo different (opposite actually) from the fact that andersen's stats have gone down as his role has become less sheltered, which worries me.
 
I didn't say anything about Andersen, I simply reject the idea that James Reimer is a "starting" NHL goalie.
 
There is nothing you can do with numbers, at least honestly, that shows James Reimer was anything more than a decent backup.

There is reason to be apprehensive with the Andersen investment, but I'm willing to trust this scouting staff until proven otherwise.
 
zeke said:
I guess there were no starting goalies in the lockout season.

all backups.
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This Reimer love affair is embarrassing. Much ado over a goalie no longer with the organization.

Andersen will be a good goalie. I think our goaltending situation is good enough to not cost us games.
 
Deckie007 said:
That's fair. If seasons were 48 games, James might be able to be a starter without getting injured.
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Yeah, there's one thing we may all be able to agree on. If the NHL's season was 48 games every year, James Reimer would probably be a quality NHL starter most years.

Unfortunately for him, the season's typically a tad longer than that.

Anyway, as much as I have my doubts about Andersen, I hope he's a smashing success in Toronto if for no other reason than we wouldn't have to talk about James Reimer or Jonathan Bernier ever again on these boards. While I do think "Team Reimer" ended up as the winner in those debates, it doesn't really matter because neither goalie has come even close to showing that they have what it takes to handle a starter's work-load, or be an above-average NHL goalie while doing it.
 
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