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The Mother-fucking goddamn Off-season Thread

MindzEye said:
Stuff like that is doable for us only if you knock your drafting out of the park.

We have not for various reasons, so yeah, there's no cap room for another league leading salary
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Yup, but its hard to do when teams trade their draft capital at the deadline
 
But also.....dubas painted himself into that cap corner here. Play the kids, and no Murray....all of a sudden maybe a deal could have been made if he wanted one so badly.
 
MindzEye said:
But also.....dubas painted himself into that cap corner here. Play the kids, and no Murray....all of a sudden maybe a deal could have been made if he wanted one so badly.
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Yup, it actually wasn't that hard at all to fit in another big salary.

Ideally, we'd have had SJ retain at least $3M or so. Then just remove Klingberg's $4M that we would never have brought aboard. Don't bother with Domi, run with McCann or hopefully Robertson instead. Chip away with a couple of kids (Sandin instead of McCabe), etc.

It was entirely doable IF: the Leafs actually wanted EK (not sure they did), SJ was willing to retain a bit more (I'm sure they would've for a couple of decent prospects), we were willing to play some kids.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Ideally, we'd have had SJ retain at least $3M or so.
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I mean, they didn't with Pittsburgh...so I'm not sure if there's a whole lot of merit in starting off your scenario with that as a necessity. The easiest way to look at this is San Jose wasn't willing to absorb more than they already did, and we can assume this because if the cost was simple draft equity, Dubas would have happily paid it in Pittsburgh.

The Leafs needed 10 million in capspace to fit Karlsson in. There's little to no indication that San Jose was interested in significant retention.
 
MindzEye said:
I mean, they didn't with Pittsburgh...so I'm not sure if there's a whole lot of merit in starting off your scenario with that as a necessity. The easiest way to look at this is San Jose wasn't willing to absorb more than they already did, and we can assume this because if the cost was simple draft equity, Dubas would have happily paid it in Pittsburgh.

The Leafs needed 10 million in capspace to fit Karlsson in. There's little to no indication that San Jose was interested in significant retention.
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But Pittsburgh didn't really give them anything other than picks. That's why SJ didn't retain.

If we threw in Minten, Robertson, Niemela or something like that, in addition to the picks, I'm sure that would've been worth some decent retention.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
I'm sure
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I found your problem bud

I mean, we just saw a young defender with years of control and outstanding analytics get traded for almost the exact same draft pick he cost a few years before and you think NHL GM's are out here valuing prospects over picks?

It took Sandin 4 years of excellent development just to recoup his value on draft night.
 
Gives us a good idea of what market value for someone like Sandin is, and if that's his market value, our B prospects aren't the equivalent value of 1st's in trade.

I mean, your assumption is that the Sharks would have valued our B prospects so much they would have been willing to eat 12+ million dollars worth of cap and dollars to get their hands on them. Nothing other than your say so suggests this was a thing though. In fact, it's kind of crazy to believe that Dubas wanted him (which is now known as a fact) and something like Niemela would have been the hold up if San Jose was willing to offer that kind of retention.

This all lines up really well with the report from the deadline where San Jose's unwillingness to provide significant retention was made public.
 
MindzEye said:
Gives us a good idea of what market value for someone like Sandin is, and if that's his market value, our B prospects aren't the equivalent value of 1st's in trade.

I mean, your assumption is that the Sharks would have valued our B prospects so much they would have been willing to eat 12+ million dollars worth of cap and dollars to get their hands on them. Nothing other than your say so suggests this was a thing though. In fact, it's kind of crazy to believe that Dubas wanted him (which is now known as a fact) and something like Niemela would have been the hold up if San Jose was willing to offer that kind of retention.

This all lines up really well with the report from the deadline where San Jose's unwillingness to provide significant retention was made public.
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I can assure you that market value for Sandin was not a lower pick than what we took him at years earlier.

And maybe you misread, but I wasn't saying that one Niemela would do it. I said a package of a few promising prospects like Minten, Robertson and Niemela. Mix and match or add another one to make it four, but I'm very confident that sort of return would be worth a few mill of retention when SJ has zero expectations of competing for anything over the remaining life of the EK contract.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
I can assure you that market value for Sandin was not a lower pick than what we took him at years earlier.
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Got him at the 29th, traded him for the 28th. More or less identical.

All of the rest is more theorycrafting that flies in the face of what we've seen actually happen. San Jose didn't want to retain significant salary, and our B prospect stuff wasn't changing their minds.
 
MindzEye said:
Got him at the 29th, traded him for the 28th. More or less identical.

All of the rest is more theorycrafting that flies in the face of what we've seen actually happen. San Jose didn't want to retain significant salary, and our B prospect stuff wasn't changing their minds.
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I know the picks were about the same, but the point is still the point. When the fuck does a relatively established young NHL dman with pretty nice upside, who hasn't been given a full season of regular play, and who is signed through the next season for just $1.4M and could play in any team's top 4...get traded for the fucking pick we took him at years later, a spot which has produced what, I assume like 5 NHLers in the last 30 years or something? What a fucking ass rape. That trade only gets made if you're drunk or you're dumb, and thus isn't representative of what good young players are worth to other teams.

As for the rest, you're concluding that SJ didn't want to retain salary simply because of the fact that they didn't. You have no information as to whether Pittsburgh offered a prospect package for more retention (I don't even know if they could), nor do we know if any other team out there was interested in EK, willing to take the gamble that last year wasn't just a one-off, or could afford/fit in even $8m not to mention $11m.
 
San Jose was dealing with a limited pool of teams, none of whom had much draft or prospect capital.

basically they get a first; guy who they can deal for a second or if he rebounds (and he’ll get a good chance to do that a first; and two guys who they should be able to pawn off at the deadline for 2/3 round picks.

the pickings were slim and the cap space had more value to them in the trade than anything else.
 
Why would they care so much about a few mill of cap space over the next few garbage years versus getting solid prospect capital in return?
 
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