corksens
Legend
You could do that, but be sure to factor in TOI and PP time.
The New Division
- Thread starter PlayerToBeNamedLater
- Start date
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Volcanologist
Well-known member
I think JVR is a more comparable player to Ryan.
hockeylover
Well-known member
By all means, do it.
Do the leg work on some statistical analysis. Show they're comparable.
corksens
Legend
Yup. Nothing at all. Man this board is a riot sometimes.
Imagine me daring to compare two comparable players style wise, with similar careers stats, being 7 months apart in age.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Fair enough:
5 on 5
Kessel P/60 - 2.45
Ryan P/60 - 2.10
But...you seem to refuse to want to ask yourself why Anaheim was playing an old and broken Teemu Selanne over Ryan on the PP...
5 on 4
Kessel P/60 - 7.71
Ryan P/60 - 4.08
Maybe Phil Kessel, you know, earns that PP time by being awesome on it and doesn't just collect point by showing up at the rink hoping that Perry or Getzky bounce a puck in off of him?
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Explain why career stats are applicable here? Why would you use career stats instead of a more current data set?
Volcanologist
Well-known member
well obviously to minimize the impact of the fact that Kessel just finished back to back top 8 scoring seasons.
corksens
Legend
Kessel
2012-2013 - 16:26 ES TOI / 3:18 PP TOI = 19:44
2011-2012 - 16:37 ES TOI / 3:20 PP TOI = 19:57
Ryan
2012-2013 - 14:34 ES TOI / 1:57 PP TOI = 16:31
2011-2012 - 15:28 ES TOI / 2:09 PP TOI = 17:37
You don't think 2.5 to 3 minutes a night (half of which on the top PP unit) will make a difference in their numbers?
Phsaw.
2012-2013 - 16:26 ES TOI / 3:18 PP TOI = 19:44
2011-2012 - 16:37 ES TOI / 3:20 PP TOI = 19:57
Ryan
2012-2013 - 14:34 ES TOI / 1:57 PP TOI = 16:31
2011-2012 - 15:28 ES TOI / 2:09 PP TOI = 17:37
You don't think 2.5 to 3 minutes a night (half of which on the top PP unit) will make a difference in their numbers?
Phsaw.
Volcanologist
Well-known member
You don't think Kessel might be playing more because he's, you know, better or anything?
corksens
Legend
To show that the only difference between the two players has been the past 1.5 seasons.
1.5 seasons where one player played more minutes (especially on the PP).
corksens
Legend
It's a numbers game - Selanne - even at his old age is still one of the best offensive players in the game. He is utilized best by eating up PP minutes.
Same thing with Alfie last year.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
2 yr splits (82 game pace)
JVR - 26G 24A 50PTS (22-23)
Ryan - 27G 29A 56PTS (24-25)
Kessel - 36G 49A 85PTS (24-25)
JVR is a much better comparable for Ryan than Ryan is for Kessel, yeah.
Yeah I was surprised that I was the first to point it out. Piss poor pass (waiting till the last second) and a piss poor play by Ryan to not drag his foot at all.... luckily for them it was a piss poor non call by the linesman.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
I showed you the scoring rates per 60 minutes played. Kessel is better 5 on 5 by a fair margin, and better on the PP by a very significant margin. Because he's a better hockey player.
Volcanologist
Well-known member
Yes, the only difference is that one player became an elite scorer and the other one didn't.
hockeylover
Well-known member
Nicely done.
Rather than just show the difference in minutes, you actually adjusted the numbers like he suggested you do.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
The biggest thing to remember about Bobby Ryan is that once upon a time, he was a 20+ minute a game forward, he was given that opportunity to break out into an elite scorer, and he was given the opportunity on the wing of one of the league's best dynamic duos. He got 20 minutes of ice, on Corey Perry's opposite wing in a season where Perry scored 50, and had 98 points. That's the only season Ryan has cracked 70 points.
Then of course, because he's soft and lazy, he had that opportunity to taken away from him. So it's not like we don't know what Ryan is capable of because he's never had the opportunity. We've seen Ryan when he had the opportunity....and it took Getzlaf and Perry to drag him to the 70 point mark kicking and screaming. Kessel became an 85 point pace scorer with Tyler ****ing Bozak as his centre.
So yeah, could I see Bobby Ryan return to being a 30+, 60+ point scorer on Spezza's wing. Sure. Is he going to do what Kessel does? Hell to the no.
Then of course, because he's soft and lazy, he had that opportunity to taken away from him. So it's not like we don't know what Ryan is capable of because he's never had the opportunity. We've seen Ryan when he had the opportunity....and it took Getzlaf and Perry to drag him to the 70 point mark kicking and screaming. Kessel became an 85 point pace scorer with Tyler ****ing Bozak as his centre.
So yeah, could I see Bobby Ryan return to being a 30+, 60+ point scorer on Spezza's wing. Sure. Is he going to do what Kessel does? Hell to the no.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
I aim to please.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
and for what I'm sure is going to be an even more contentious argument, similar to what Volc put forward...I wouldn't trade JVR, all things considered, for Bobby Ryan, right now. 2 yrs younger, locked in at 4.25 for 5 seasons as opposed to Ryan getting 5.1 this season and then on to UFA status, the difference in style (JVR willing to stand in front of the net, and his superior board work).