blacksheep
New member
Hopeychange?
OT: American Politics
- Thread starter MindzEye
- Start date
Hopeychange?
blacksheep
New member
Re: OT: Canadian Politics
link
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Yet, at the same time, they've spent us into oblivion on this F-35 fighter jet deal, without even bothering to shop around for the best bang for the buck. The measly $11M saved pales in comparison to the billions in cost overruns the F-35s will run us.
And all his supporters will buy into this come election time, when he once again claims to be smarter at spending than the others.
The fact is, it took Chretien's Liberals almost a decade to bring the Federal Debt down below $490B. With Harper, it only took three years to get back over $490B. I can give him a buy for some of that, as he was trying to spark the economy after it just about fell off the cliff. Nevertheless, it only took five years of Harper to bring the debt back up to where it was way back in 1997. Only five years to undo over a decade of progress by Chretien's Liberals. Once again, the chart, for those who missed it:
View attachment 2418
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This is the story of the Harper "conservatives." In a very smart move, they trimmed $11M by shutting down a totally ineffective, and useless international influence committee.
Yet, at the same time, they've spent us into oblivion on this F-35 fighter jet deal, without even bothering to shop around for the best bang for the buck. The measly $11M saved pales in comparison to the billions in cost overruns the F-35s will run us.
And all his supporters will buy into this come election time, when he once again claims to be smarter at spending than the others.
The fact is, it took Chretien's Liberals almost a decade to bring the Federal Debt down below $490B. With Harper, it only took three years to get back over $490B. I can give him a buy for some of that, as he was trying to spark the economy after it just about fell off the cliff. Nevertheless, it only took five years of Harper to bring the debt back up to where it was way back in 1997. Only five years to undo over a decade of progress by Chretien's Liberals. Once again, the chart, for those who missed it:
View attachment 2418
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JaysCyYoung
Legend
Re: OT: Canadian Politics
Who cares what it costs? Just buy the damn planes already. Or buy the Eurofighter Typhoon or some other fifth generation craft, it doesn't matter.
I really wish we were more like Australia when it came to defence spending. People down there don't over-analyze every single hardware purchase that the government makes.
Who cares what it costs? Just buy the damn planes already. Or buy the Eurofighter Typhoon or some other fifth generation craft, it doesn't matter.
I really wish we were more like Australia when it came to defence spending. People down there don't over-analyze every single hardware purchase that the government makes.
corksens
Legend
Re: OT: Canadian Politics
The F-35 was a deal started by and heavily invested in by the Liberals.
Because of this initial investment, and the initial drive by all other NATO countries towards the F-35 they stayed the course.
Things appear to have changed.
And I take no issue with the debt. They were ultimately forced to do it by the opposition. Hell, apparently they didn't go far enough.
The debt will be gone by 2015, and that's all that matters.
The F-35 was a deal started by and heavily invested in by the Liberals.
Because of this initial investment, and the initial drive by all other NATO countries towards the F-35 they stayed the course.
Things appear to have changed.
And I take no issue with the debt. They were ultimately forced to do it by the opposition. Hell, apparently they didn't go far enough.
The debt will be gone by 2015, and that's all that matters.
JaysCyYoung
Legend
Re: OT: Canadian Politics
And if I had my way this country would have a fleet of 20-25 Westland Apache helicopters that would have been absolutely nightmarish on the Taliban in Afghanistan.
But God forbid Canada have any sort of firepower capacities.
And if I had my way this country would have a fleet of 20-25 Westland Apache helicopters that would have been absolutely nightmarish on the Taliban in Afghanistan.
But God forbid Canada have any sort of firepower capacities.
UWHabs
Well-known member
Re: OT: Canadian Politics
If the debt is gone by 2015, that would be amazing, given that they've only budgeted for the deficit to be gone by that point.
For the F35s, like when the story came out, I don't mind buying them, but it would have been nice to run it under a proper competition, to prove that nobody else could make a similar plane for a cheaper price.
If the debt is gone by 2015, that would be amazing, given that they've only budgeted for the deficit to be gone by that point.
For the F35s, like when the story came out, I don't mind buying them, but it would have been nice to run it under a proper competition, to prove that nobody else could make a similar plane for a cheaper price.
JaysCyYoung
Legend
Re: OT: Canadian Politics
Unless you want to be purchasing Chinese or Russian aircraft that was not a possibility.
Unless you want to be purchasing Chinese or Russian aircraft that was not a possibility.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Re: OT: Canadian Politics
If by "heavily" you mean 10 million dollars thrown at the project when it was still only known as the "JSF", and during the period in which Boeing & Lockheed were prototyping and actually competing for a contract...sure.
10 Million is pretty easy to walk away from, especially considering the spiralling cost overruns inbetween 1997 (when the Liberals cut the 10 million dollar cheque) and 2010 when the program was already a known gong show with an unknown cost.
Basically, your argument is nothing but Harper apologetics, which doesn't surprise me in the least Corks. At least trying to call a spade a ****ing spade once in a while, it's good for the soul.
Okay, even if I buy the heavily flawed "the Liberals made me do it" argument here. Which is, as I stated earlier, a matter of political expediency over principle, and though shrewd, nothing at all to be applauded. How exactly does the 2009 budget, where Harper caved to the demands of the Liberals, create massive deficits from 2010-2014....all while being the fault of the Liberals in 08?
According to whom exactly? This isn't the US, where the argument of too small a stimulus package actually carries water. We, unlike our cousins to the south, didn't need any of it. The monetary reaction by the BoC would have been more than sufficient.
Well...the deficit will be gone by 2015, and that's good, but it's far from being all that matters. We, unlike our cousins to the south, don't have the international fiat currency standing that would allow us to inflate our way into easing the burden carrying the additional debt places on our economy. That's 100 Billion additional dollars that we have to pay...compounding...interest on. Grab a calculator and go have fun with numbers, those are dollars that you and the following generations of little Corkies are going to be paying off....****ing interest payments, like a lead weight around our collective necks. While you're too busy massaging harpers balls while you take him all the way into your throat.
Partisanship is a ****ing disease.
If by "heavily" you mean 10 million dollars thrown at the project when it was still only known as the "JSF", and during the period in which Boeing & Lockheed were prototyping and actually competing for a contract...sure.
10 Million is pretty easy to walk away from, especially considering the spiralling cost overruns inbetween 1997 (when the Liberals cut the 10 million dollar cheque) and 2010 when the program was already a known gong show with an unknown cost.
Basically, your argument is nothing but Harper apologetics, which doesn't surprise me in the least Corks. At least trying to call a spade a ****ing spade once in a while, it's good for the soul.
Okay, even if I buy the heavily flawed "the Liberals made me do it" argument here. Which is, as I stated earlier, a matter of political expediency over principle, and though shrewd, nothing at all to be applauded. How exactly does the 2009 budget, where Harper caved to the demands of the Liberals, create massive deficits from 2010-2014....all while being the fault of the Liberals in 08?
.
According to whom exactly? This isn't the US, where the argument of too small a stimulus package actually carries water. We, unlike our cousins to the south, didn't need any of it. The monetary reaction by the BoC would have been more than sufficient.
Well...the deficit will be gone by 2015, and that's good, but it's far from being all that matters. We, unlike our cousins to the south, don't have the international fiat currency standing that would allow us to inflate our way into easing the burden carrying the additional debt places on our economy. That's 100 Billion additional dollars that we have to pay...compounding...interest on. Grab a calculator and go have fun with numbers, those are dollars that you and the following generations of little Corkies are going to be paying off....****ing interest payments, like a lead weight around our collective necks. While you're too busy massaging harpers balls while you take him all the way into your throat.
Partisanship is a ****ing disease.
JaysCyYoung
Legend
Re: OT: Canadian Politics
Seriously though, in retrospect the worst thing that the Tories did was increase spending while cutting government revenue. You cannot claim to be great fiscal managers while removing government revenue like the GST (a mind-bogglingly stupid decision in retrospect) while at the same time increasing spending for different programs. All you do is increase the yearly deficit at a period in time that you're trying to pay down the national debt.
Seriously though, in retrospect the worst thing that the Tories did was increase spending while cutting government revenue. You cannot claim to be great fiscal managers while removing government revenue like the GST (a mind-bogglingly stupid decision in retrospect) while at the same time increasing spending for different programs. All you do is increase the yearly deficit at a period in time that you're trying to pay down the national debt.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
JaysCyYoung
Legend
Re: OT: Canadian Politics
Now watch kb come in here and claim that I'm not a real conservative because I don't like massive government spending programs that accumulate interest on interest.
Now watch kb come in here and claim that I'm not a real conservative because I don't like massive government spending programs that accumulate interest on interest.
Wayward DP
Well-known member
Re: OT: Canadian Politics
Well said.
One of my problems with conservatives who talk a big game but then spend big in government
Well said.
One of my problems with conservatives who talk a big game but then spend big in government
corksens
Legend
Re: OT: Canadian Politics
Nothing worse than an armchair expert empowered by google. Actually, that's not true. There is nothing worse than an armchair expert empowered by google with a condescending attitude claiming others should be less biased. The irony is overwhelming.
Nothing worse than an armchair expert empowered by google. Actually, that's not true. There is nothing worse than an armchair expert empowered by google with a condescending attitude claiming others should be less biased. The irony is overwhelming.
More than 10 million dollars was invested into the deal between 1997 and 2006 when Harper and the Conservatives won their first minority.
You also didn't address the fact that all NATO partners, up until last year were moving ahead with F-35 purchases. Was Canada expected to walk away from their allies and risk having woefully incompatible aircraft? If you say so.
The "liberals made me do it" applies because up until last year we have been dealing with minority governments. The Conservatives had little choice but to cave to the demands or go back to the polls.
All opposition parties.
No shit, hypocrite.
HabsAddict
New member
Re: OT: Canadian Politics
I doubt the Libs will have any traction in the prairies. That leaves BC, Ontario and the east. Pandering to Quebecs "gimme more" will put them at odds with ROC and drag them right back to the left.
Harper has played it right politically. On top of that, from 30 more seats, most will go his direction.
I doubt the Libs will have any traction in the prairies. That leaves BC, Ontario and the east. Pandering to Quebecs "gimme more" will put them at odds with ROC and drag them right back to the left.
Harper has played it right politically. On top of that, from 30 more seats, most will go his direction.
corksens
Legend
Re: OT: Canadian Politics
but they have to "defend themselves" whereas we don't have to, US planes get to our air space in no time to meet any interloper.
I also never would have thought you would want to emulate a penal colony.
but they have to "defend themselves" whereas we don't have to, US planes get to our air space in no time to meet any interloper.
I also never would have thought you would want to emulate a penal colony.
Re: OT: Canadian Politics
do you try hard to be an ******* or does it come naturally?
do you try hard to be an ******* or does it come naturally?