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Is the Leafs defense core "putrid" per THN?

BeLeafer

BeLeafer

Well-known member
Was reading THN's projection for the Leafs this year and was initially struck by the claim that they are "very likely" to finish last again. Upon reading further, the key reason they cite for this is the Leafs "putrid defence core."

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/thn-s-2016-17-nhl-season-preview-toronto-maple-leafs

Maybe I'm wearing blue and white goggles, but I see a defense core far from putrid. Rielly is emerging as a legit top pairing blueliner, if not elite #1. Gardiner is rock solid and adds a nice threat from the backend. Zaitsev looks to be at least a very capable top four. Sure, lots of question marks after that but Between Marincin, Carrick, Corrado et al, there's at least an okay bottom three to complement these guys.

Thoughts?
 
Massive question marks just about everywhere. Putrid is typical media nonsense but it is a place where there is almost no certainty.
 
Yeah, putrid seems a bit unfair but there's some major question marks there definitely.


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They're skilled and mobile. They are also young so there will be mistakes though. They aren't built the way traditional d's are built with vets, brusers and "defensive defensemen." I think they get overlooked for that. But its a really well rounded group that can all skate, move the puck, get out of their zone and drive possession.

I actually think the D core might be the strength of the team. Upfront there is a lot of talent, but they are all teenagers. Guys like Gardiner, Marincin and Zeitsev are entering their primes and are all pretty good players, and Rielly is on the verge of breaking out big time.

They need another top 4 defeseman, ideally that can produce offense, but its hardly the worst defense in the league.
 
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Agree entirely, 101.

Preseason is preseason but these guys (even with the non-regulars in the lineup) have been very effective at moving the puck out of their zone and quickly. The only time I've noticed them getting hemmed in to any extent was when either Hunwick/Polak or JVR/Bozak were on the ice. But it's night and day from the Randy years.

This blueline is being built to move the puck up ice. Gardiner, in particular, is massively underappreciated for his ability to do this. Zaitsev is a much better puck mover than I'd imagined. It's not a well oiled machine but it's getting there.

In terms of another top 4, Marincin has definite promise. If not, Carrick seems highly motivated.
 
We have... Rielly and Gardiner. Maybe Zaitsev pans out. But everyone else after them is likely a bottom six player -- yes, that includes Marincin. So putrid? Absolutely.
 
I think rielly and jake are pretty much awesome. top pair calibre. that makes it better than putrid right off the bat.

Zaitsev and Marincin are the x factors. if they can be effective top 4 guys we're looking like one of the most talented young dcorps in the league.

hunny and polak as bottom pair guys is basically average.
 
hockeeyyy said:
We have... Rielly and Gardiner. Maybe Zaitsev pans out. But everyone else after them is likely a bottom six player -- yes, that includes Marincin. So putrid? Absolutely.
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If the Leafs blueline is "putrid", so are about 7-10 bluelines in the NHL.
 
zeke said:
Zaitsev and Marincin are the x factors. if they can be effective top 4 guys we're looking like one of the most talented young dcorps in the league.
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I often wondered why the Oilers kept sending Marincin down to the farm (back in his Oiler days) when I thought he actually was one of their better defenders. Haven't really followed his career since then though.
 
Putrid is a bit much, but I wouldn't call our blueline group particularly strong. I think the biggest issue is collective lack of NHL experience from the more talented guys who will be expected to shoulder the load. The Hunwicks and Marincins need to be slotted where they should be this season so that can happen. In other words, mistakes are going to be made defensively.

Also, even assuming Zaitsev can be a top 4 NHL D, we're still lacking another such player. Hopefully that player will emerge from within the organization in the near term and we don't have to make a costly trade.
 
So much of how good the blueline is depends on how the goaltending is.

In prior years, having shitty goalies meant more dman mistakes than normal would end up in our net, making our D look really bad.

If Andersen is the real deal and can put up great numbers, our D will be roughly the same, but suddenly far more appreciated.
 
Volcanologist said:
Putrid is a bit much, but I wouldn't call our blueline group particularly strong. I think the biggest issue is collective lack of NHL experience from the more talented guys who will be expected to shoulder the load. The Hunwicks and Marincins need to be slotted where they should be this season so that can happen. In other words, mistakes are going to be made defensively.

Also, even assuming Zaitsev can be a top 4 NHL D, we're still lacking another such player. Hopefully that player will emerge from within the organization in the near term and we don't have to make a costly trade.
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It won't be long before some of the excess young forward prospects get dealt for a legit top two or four dman, imo.

We won't have enough room for all of Leivo, Brown, Kapanen, Rychel, Leipsic, Lindberg, Johnson, Gauthier, etc. A few will be packaged and moved for a capable young blueliner. And I suspect sooner rather than later.

So I don't expect a costly trade per se, just one where we reallocate our suddenly plentiful resources.
 
Your blueline won't be that good this season. It'll improve though. I wouldn't use the word putrid, I'd probably use the term suspect.
 
Preston_Mizzi said:
It all comes down to Gardiner being underrated. No one has a decent understanding of how good Jake is.
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+1

The consensus is that he's a heavily mistake prone #4 type defender when any analysis of his actual defensive ability that doesn't depend on the "bad" giveaway every 4-5 games ends up calling him a legitimate #2 defender.

He's in the discussion for most under rated player in the league quite frankly, but given how bad the team he's played on has been, that's par for the course.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
It won't be long before some of the excess young forward prospects get dealt for a legit top two or four dman, imo.

We won't have enough room for all of Leivo, Brown, Kapanen, Rychel, Leipsic, Lindberg, Johnson, Gauthier, etc. A few will be packaged and moved for a capable young blueliner. And I suspect sooner rather than later.

So I don't expect a costly trade per se, just one where we reallocate our suddenly plentiful resources.
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I don't see a legit top D being acquired for those names. At least, not one in the age group we're looking for.

I'm not worried about the Leafs trading any of the big 3 or Rielly though. They've done an amazing job in the last while but there's no reason not to have patience here and see what we have.
 
Someone at THN would have a pretty hard time making a coherent argument that the Leafs blueline doesn't belong in the conversation with:

Detroit
NYI
Philly
Vancouver
Boston
Buffalo
Edmonton
Jersey
and for now, Carolina.

We're definitely in the bottom tier, and if we're calling that "putrid" as a group, okay fair play. But we're basically talking about the bottom 3rd of the league here in defensive groups, the derision starts to lose it's meaning when the group of relatively equally bad bluelines is this large.
 
and yeah, there's no rush. We've got a huge group of NHL talent working it's way on to the big club right now and we'll end up trading from our position of strength to fill those gaps behind Rielly, Gardiner, and Zaitsev (who looks plenty good to have a potential #2-3 tag hung on him). Nielsen looks good, Dermott looks good, Valiev looks good. There are kids coming with the talent to fill the gaps.
 
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