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Leafs' Prospect/Marlies Discussion Thread!

Keefe seems to lean heavily on his most skilled players who some coaches would shy away from due to lack of experience. Doubleshifting an 18 year old defenseman in an AHL playoff game anc playing him nearly the entire final 2 minutes while defending a lead seems pretty unheard of.
 
hockeylover said:
Keefe seems to lean heavily on his most skilled players who some coaches would shy away from due to lack of experience. Doubleshifting an 18 year old defenseman in an AHL playoff game anc playing him nearly the entire final 2 minutes while defending a lead seems pretty unheard of.
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Play your best players. It's all we've ever asked, and we've never seen it actually happen here.

Sandin is their best player. His level of experience and age are irrelevant. Play your best ****ing players. They don't "need" to have Loverde or some veteran scrub out there like Babcock would have done. They need their best players to be their best players. You live and die with your best players. Sandin isn't just their best defender, he's their best player (which is faptastic by the way)
 
How do I already know that once Keefe takes over and plays our best players, the criticism will then be that he plays our best players too much and runs them into the ground?

I really don't think there's any coach on the planet that will be able to satisfy us, or any team's fans by the way. I mean, is any fanbase totally happy with their coach? What are TB's fans saying about Cooper right now? The only coach that will escape criticism is the one that wins, and if he doesn't win, even if he loses in OT in Game 7 of the SC finals, then he'll have been a **** up that made a wrong move or non-move that cost the team the game.

As much as Babs' scowl irks me at this point, and his strange handling of an elite roster, I don't expect to love anyone who'd take over from him.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
How do I already know that once Keefe takes over and plays our best players, the criticism will then be that he plays our best players too much and runs them into the ground?

I really don't think there's any coach on the planet that will be able to satisfy us, or any team's fans by the way. I mean, is any fanbase totally happy with their coach? What are TB's fans saying about Cooper right now? The only coach that will escape criticism is the one that wins, and if he doesn't win, even if he loses in OT in Game 7 of the SC finals, then he'll have been a **** up that made a wrong move or non-move that cost the team the game.

As much as Babs' scowl irks me at this point, and his strange handling of an elite roster, I don't expect to love anyone who'd take over from him.
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If he plays Auston Matthews for 25 minutes during a Tuesday night game against the Sens in November? Sure.

If he does it in a game seven? Not so much.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
How do I already know that once Keefe takes over and plays our best players, the criticism will then be that he plays our best players too much and runs them into the ground?
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Because there's a wide gap between how much is too much, and how much Babcock plays them.


For example. Rielly and Muzzin are our best defenders. Rielly played 23 mpg and Muzzin 21. There's no reason that they can't play 25 and 23 respectively. Dermott played 17 minutes a night, and there's no reason he shouldn't be playing 19-20 instead of Zaitsev (20:28) and Hainsey (20:15). Connor Brown averaged more mpg this season than Andreas Johnsson. Patrick Marleau got 16:21 a game. "Play your best players" doesn't just mean to pick your stars and play the shit out of them. It means to stop being so ****ing cute with your usage. Play your best players.

Up front, JT has played 20+ pretty much every year of his career, so going from 19:05 to 20:30 isn't a big deal. I'm fine with Mitch's 19:49 this year. Auston's 18:33 is a ****ing joke though. That's another guy who should be out there another 2 minutes of ice. The difference here is keeping the 1st unit out for 1:30 instead of a minute (Mike is one of the only coaches who plays his 2 PP units close to a dead even split) and on average another 5 on 5 shift or two a game. The real usage difference should be when you're down a goal, and right after goals scored for and against. This nonsense with running the 4th line out there after a goal is one of the dumbest things I've seen in hockey. The concept is that your worst players are being put on the ice for some of the most important shifts (momentum is a thing) of the game. Someone scores on you, and your answer is to put your worst players out there? You scored, and your answer is to not try to push further advantage, but to send your worst players out there?
 
I don't disagree. It's asinine.

Even from just a pure entertainment standpoint - forgetting about wins and losses - I want to watch the stars play.

All I'm pointing out is that I bet once the shine wears off on the new guy, there'll be a whole host of complaints about him.
 
I mean Marner just had the 11th highest scoring season of any player 21 or under since the mid 90s and all anyone is talking about is how his non existent extension is a bad contract.

Only 6 players (Crosby, Malkin, McDavid, Ovie, Stamkos, Staal) had better years by the same age than this guy, but its all just complaining about his contract.
 
MindzEye said:
Nuke him from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
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leafman101 said:
I mean Marner just had the 11th highest scoring season of any player 21 or under since the mid 90s and all anyone is talking about is how his non existent extension is a bad contract.

Only 6 players (Crosby, Malkin, McDavid, Ovie, Stamkos, Staal) had better years by the same age than this guy, but its all just complaining about his contract.
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There is an argument that those numbers were inflated by JT and not vice versa that everyone seems to be hanging on

It’s great to say he deserves the same at JT and Matthews but in reality can he continue to put up those numbers on his own if required

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Yeah I noticed that earlier in the year - mitch's possession numbers without Tavares were scary bad.
 
Marner With Tavares: 53.9cf%, 56.7scf%, 55.2xgf%
Marner W/O Tavares: 38.8cf%, 39.2scf%, 35.5xgf%
Tavares W/O Marner: 51.6cf%, 53.9scf%, 45.3xgf%

Pretty dramatic.
 
leafman101 said:
See what I mean.
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Adding appropriate pieces of information to a conversation regarding the proper value of a player isn't complaining. Not all of us want to drop our pants and get ****ed just because we can't bare to face our decades long PTSD of not having good players in our organization.

I want Mitch here. He's a very, very good young player. But he has a value and if his camp insists on being being paid like a top 5 player in the game (which he isn't, and isn't really that close to being overall), then we have to explore all of our options. "He's really good, just give him all the money because he's really good" isn't a team building, or cap management philosophy.
 
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