GDT: Habs @ New and Improved Leafs

[Habsy]

Keon was definitely the best defensive/ 2 way centre of his era, full stop. How he ranks against other great defensive forwards of all time, hard to say. Pre/Post expansion are two different universes.

Oooh you mean among six teams. Yeah maybe for a few years with only six teams in the league. Sure why not.

 

[MindzEye]

Lemaire > Keon and it's not really a discussion.

 

[thehabhater]

There's some validity here. I mean the way they treated Keon alone.

Ballard. The asshole.

As for the draft Imlach protected players like Stanley, Horton, Bower, and Armstrong. All of who were sniffing at 40 and could have been left unprotected and simply threatened to retire If drafted like Geffrion did.

 

[Habsy]

Another valid argument.

I will concede Keon pre-expansion. Post expansion he wasn't the top and wasn't better than Lemieux at that time.

 

[Habsy]

Rispek or gtfo

Kevin Lowe is a Lowe Blow

 

[thehabhater]

Another valid argument.

I will concede Keon pre-expansion. Post expansion he wasn't the top and wasn't better than Lemieux at that time.

Montreal was stacked 1967-1979. The 1969-70 hab team had to be the most talented team to miss the playoffs ever.

Keon had almost no support after 67 until the rise of Sittler. And then Ballard chased him out.

During the time of 68-74. Lemaire was miles better.

 

[MindzEye]

Rispek or gtfo

Kevin Lowe is a Lowe Blow

I respeck just fine.

It's the Kevin Lowe effect because Kevin Lowe is the best example of it. Great but not all time great players who were surrounded by uber stars on dynasty level teams.

If Lemaire was on Minnesota, does he make the Hall? If JP Parise is his left winger for a decade and not Yvon fucking Cornoyer, what does his legacy look like? Beliveau, Robinson, Dryden, Lapointe, Lefleur, etc...franchise defining all time talents that he got to play with and ride on the coat tails of.

The price of winning 8 cups on an uber team should be getting judged accordingly as never really being the guy.

 

[Habsy]

Montreal was stacked 1967-1979. The 1969-70 hab team had to be the most talented team to miss the playoffs ever.

Keon had almost no support after 67 until the rise of Sittler. And then Ballard chased him out.

During the time of 68-74. Lemaire was miles better.

To say Lemaire wasn't a D stud while posting almost a ppg is just disingenuous or ignorant. I can agree with this.

BTW, Gainey credited Lemaire for improving his D prowess.

 

[thehabhater]

I respeck just fine.

It's the Kevin Lowe effect because Kevin Lowe is the best example of it. Great but not all time great players who were surrounded by uber stars on dynasty level teams.

If Lemaire was on Minnesota, does he make the Hall? If JP Parise is his left winger for a decade and not Yvon fucking Cornoyer, what does his legacy look like? Beliveau, Robinson, Dryden, Lapointe, Lefleur, etc...franchise defining all time talents that he got to play with and ride on the coat tails of.

The price of winning 8 cups on an uber team should be getting judged accordingly as never really being the guy.

Lemaire was the checking centre. He was damn good too. He was no slouch scoring either. He was important to 5 of the six 70’s cups. He was no passenger.

 

[thehabhater]

To say Lemaire wasn't a wasn't stud while posting almost a ppg is just disingenuous or ignorant.

I never said that either.

 

[Habsy]

I never said that either.

No. Mindz did. The incredulity of it I can't overcome.

 

[Habsy]

Lemaire was the checking centre. He was damn good too. He was no slouch scoring either. He was important to 5 of the six 70’s cups. He was no passenger.

Exactly. He was also good enough offensively to play on the top two lines but his D was so outstanding he was relegated to the third line which at the time was typically the checking line. Even there he was almost a ppg.

 

[Habsy]

I respeck just fine.

It's the Kevin Lowe effect because Kevin Lowe is the best example of it. Great but not all time great players who were surrounded by uber stars on dynasty level teams.

If Lemaire was on Minnesota, does he make the Hall? If JP Parise is his left winger for a decade and not Yvon fucking Cornoyer, what does his legacy look like? Beliveau, Robinson, Dryden, Lapointe, Lefleur, etc...franchise defining all time talents that he got to play with and ride on the coat tails of.

The price of winning 8 cups on an uber team should be getting judged accordingly as never really being the guy.

You're way off here man. Surprisingly so.

Lemaire was better than his third line position. He was NOT a passenger like Lowe

 

[thehabhater]

Lemaire would not have been a third line centre on any team except the one that he was on.

Winning 8 cups doesn’t hurt either.

 

[MindzEye]

Lemaire was better than his third line position. He was NOT a passenger like Lowe

Edmonton fans argue until they're blue in the face that Lowe wasn't a passenger.

I'm not arguing that Lemaire wasn't a great player. I am arguing that his legacy would be way, way different if he was the best player on his team over his career and on the 6th-7th best player on it.

Answer my question...what would Lemaire's legacy be if he was in Minnesota instead of Montreal?

 

[MindzEye]

Lemaire would not have been a third line centre on any team except the one that he was on.

Winning 8 cups doesn’t hurt either.

Lemaire was a very good centre, top 10 in his era. He had a 3-4 year run mid career where he was a top 4-5 centre. That's a hell of a player. Keon was 1-2-3 with Beliveau & Ullman for most of the 60's.

 

[Habsy]

Edmonton fans argue until they're blue in the face that Lowe wasn't a passenger.

I'm not arguing that Lemaire wasn't a great player. I am arguing that his legacy would be way, way different if he was the best player on his team over his career and on the 6th-7th best player on it.

Answer my question...what would Lemaire's legacy be if he was in Minnesota instead of Montreal?

How can you answer a hypothetical? Come on now.

The individual player? Yes I think he would have gone down as a great two way centerman, just not with 8 cups.

Lemaire wasn't a secondary player on those Habs teams, he was leaned on a lot. It was only until Gainey became Gainey and then he wasn't used as much defensively.

Lemaire taught Gainey

Gainey taught Carbonneau, who was a top D center as well.

Carbonneau taught nobody.

 

[MindzEye]

How can you answer a hypothetical? Come on now.

The individual player? Yes I think he would have gone down as a great two way centerman, just not with 8 cups.

Lemaire wasn't a secondary player on those Habs teams, he was leaned on a lot. It was only until Gainey became Gainey and then he wasn't used as much defensively.

Lemaire taught Gainey

Gainey taught Carbonneau, who was a top D center as well.

Carbonneau taught nobody.

What I'm trying to say is that Lemaire was real gud, but if he wasn't on a club with a half dozen all time greats the idea of >'ing him against Keon would be the height of hilarious.

Keon was the great on his cup winning teams. He was the guy. Lemaire was a guy. A real gud guy, but a guy.

 

[thehabhater]

What I'm trying to say is that Lemaire was real gud, but if he wasn't on a club with a half dozen all time greats the idea of >'ing him against Keon would be the height of hilarious.

Keon was the great on his cup winning teams. He was the guy. Lemaire was a guy. A real gud guy, but a guy.

I disagree about Lemaire. He was Uber important on the 70’s cups.

Leafs 60’s cups were won by the checking of Kelly and Keon. And especially in 67. Keon shut down the habs. ( except for the Sawchuck hangover game).

 

[Habsy]

What I'm trying to say is that Lemaire was real gud, but if he wasn't on a club with a half dozen all time greats the idea of >'ing him against Keon would be the height of hilarious.

Keon was the great on his cup winning teams. He was the guy. Lemaire was a guy. A real gud guy, but a guy.

You're being punitive to Lemaire on no fault of his own though. I get the sentiment and the logic however I have to just agree to disagree and like you with Lemaire, I think the same of Keon. Real real good but there were better. Granted after the expansion.