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2024-25 Canes Miscellaneous Thread

My take is that he's Turbo in style, not in temperament ... and he's a quantum leap more productive. Does this Canes team miss Turbo? On the power play, certainly. And I think Aho misses that kind of setup winger, even though it's been a couple of years since he actually played with Turbo consistently. As to the actual price tag and ROI ... hell if I know. Personally I think this system can make room for a guy like Marner without shifting too many priorities. But that's me. They 100% need to add high end winger this summer of some sort. Maybe he's the guy, maybe not.
 
dwind said:
How would marner and Hall play together?
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I don't think they would. I think they'd be play drivers on separate lines. There's a kind of center who could play between those two guys, but not on Carolina's roster.
 
Mitch Marner is a dynamic offensive player and an above average Defensive forward. He is a great penalty killer and PP payer who also is a solid 2 way 5v5 player.

The big issues with Marner have been in the playoffs, where his numbers have taken a noticeable dip. He's definitely not a physical player out there.

Any team that going to make a huge money play for Marner is going to need to convince themselves that:

a) Marner's regular season production is not just a symptom of the high end talent that surrounds him on the Leafs. There are some regular Leafs posters on this board that probably can produce a number showing how Marner does when Matthews is out of the lineup (I suspect he does very well regardless).

b) Marner's playoff results are just part of the general malaise that befalls the Leafs in the playoffs overall (aka its not mostly Mitch Marner's fault and he CAN actually play at a superstar level in the playoffs)

c) Marner is not going to fall apart outside the comfort of playing for his hometown team where there are multiple superstar players. Is he willing to play for the Canes or is he interested in 'big markets only'? Playing for Toronto and playing for the Canes are night and day. I don't know if Marner loves the big city/Huge media attention and thrives off of it or not.

I think Mitch Marner is truly an elite forward and that he makes others on the ice better. $13-14 million is a crazy steep price tag for someone who doesn't play center and has the playoff history that he does. But Marner holds all the cards here, and if the Leafs do allow him to get to market, I suspect it would take a contract offer that is just impossible for him to say "no" to relative to what the Leafs final best offer is for him to sign with the Canes. How things go with the playoffs this year for the Leafs I suspect is going to drive their approach with Marner.

Yes I would pay him $14 million a year as a UFA and take that chance.
 
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cmaleski2 said:
Mitch Marner is a dynamic offensive player and an above average Defensive forward. He is a great penalty killer and PP payer who also is a solid 2 way 5v5 player.

The big issues with Marner have been in the playoffs, where his numbers have taken a noticeable dip. He's definitely not a physical player out there.

Any team that going to make a huge money play for Marner is going to need to convince themselves that:

a) Marner's regular season production is not just a symptom of the high end talent that surrounds him on the Leafs. There are some regular Leafs posters on this board that probably can produce a number showing how Marner does when Matthews is out of the lineup (I suspect he does very well regardless).

b) Marner's playoff results are just part of the general malaise that befalls the Leafs in the playoffs overall (aka its not mostly Mitch Marner's fault and he CAN actually play at a superstar level in the playoffs)

c) Marner is not going to fall apart outside the comfort of playing for his hometown team where there are multiple superstar players. Is he willing to play for the Canes or is he interested in 'big markets only'? Playing for Toronto and playing for the Canes are night and day. I don't know if Marner loves the big city/Huge media attention and thrives off of it or not.

I think Mitch Marner is truly an elite forward and that he makes others on the ice better. $13-14 million is a crazy steep price tag for someone who doesn't play center and has the playoff history that he does. But Marner holds all the cards here, and if the Leafs do allow him to get to market, I suspect it would take a contract offer that is just impossible for him to say "no" to relative to what the Leafs final best offer is for him to sign with the Canes. How things go with the playoffs this year for the Leafs I suspect is going to drive their approach with Marner.

Yes I would pay him $14 million a year as a UFA and take that chance.
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One note on Marner, he has his first child on the way this spring or summer, could that type of life changing event make him and his Ontario born wife want to stay in Toronto? My gut says Marner stays in Toronto and finds a number he and the Leafs can live with.
 
Given how his contract negotiations have gone thus far in his career, I think it's patently obvious that he's going to go where he thinks he can make the most money. How you do that math is up to you, but I'd assume that bigger markets will be credited for the opportunity for secondary income while no-tax States will obviously factor in as well. Carolina's advantage would be purely cash as they have the kind of cap space to get away with over-paying an elite player ... same as what they tried to do with Rantanen. At least if you swing and miss in free agency, nobody calls you an idiot :0)

My gut says both Marner and the Leafs are sick of the drama they've caused each other to endure and he walks this summer ... unless they go on a deep playoff run and he plays great in the playoffs. In that case 90% of the drama melts away and negotiations are easier. If Marner does walk, I think he's going to prefer a "glamour market." I could be way off base, but until we get to July 1 ... who really gives a crap what I think?
 
On Marner it's worth noting that if he does go to market, he'll be by far the most high profile forward in the player pool. He'll ABSOLUTELY get over-paid because whoever that guy is on July 1st always does. There's every chance that somebody will trade for his rights before July 1 to have solo negotiations, so factor that in as well. In fact, I'd consider that more likely than not.
 
As good as he is I’d like to see us not overpay. I don’t think his skillset/physical attributes fill a hole for us. He certainly would make us better but we’d have the same type of weaknesses. (Skilled players we have are smallish)

Do you think maximizing his abilities (which you must do if you overpay him) would require revamping our forwards pretty substantially? Or that he would slide in as the finishing piece (like MacKinnon would).
 
MacKinnon? Why bring him into this? He's a unicorn and is locked up until 2031.

You guys wanna get consistently better on the power play, right? A guy like Marner does that for you, even if his game has some holes. If you want the absolute perfect player before you even think about spending serious money then you're never going to spend any money unless you tank at absolutely the right time ... and get lucky.
 
jeffbear said:
MacKinnon? Why bring him into this? He's a unicorn and is locked up until 2031.

You guys wanna get consistently better on the power play, right? A guy like Marner does that for you, even if his game has some holes. If you want the absolute perfect player before you even think about spending serious money then you're never going to spend any money unless you tank at absolutely the right time ... and get lucky.
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You just like to argue but not get argued back. You don’t need to get all condescending. I get it- you know more than me about hockey, and travel, and Disney, and construction. So I guess I’ll try not to have any opinions on any of those topics. Let me know what Other topics I might have missed.
 
cmon3 said:
You just like to argue but not get argued back. You don’t need to get all condescending. I get it- you know more than me about hockey, and travel, and Disney, and construction. So I guess I’ll try not to have any opinions on any of those topics. Let me know what Other topics I might have missed.
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I like to argue, fair enough ... but there's no need to get pissy about it. Or personal.

You want to argue back, be my guest because that's what we're here for. If you want to be personally confrontational for no reason I can find, then I really have nothing for you.
 
We have proven with Rantanen and Guentzel that it takes the right kind of ‘stud’ to fit this system and culture. Just throwing money at a guy who’s a great player is not always going to work here. I honestly haven’t seen enough of Marner to know how he would ‘fit’ here.
 
Marner has the distinction of having been molded into a pretty effective and willing two-way winger, and he's more of a setup guy than a shooter. Honestly, he's the kind of play who fits most systems ... some better than others. Would he fit in Carolina's system, yeah ... I'd think it would be reasonable to assume that. Again, profile-wise he's not that much different than Teravainen (although a quantum leap better) and Turbo fit here well enough for a fairly long period. People complain about his lack of physicality, but when has that really been a problem here? You balance that stuff out. Is he going to be "worth" what it costs to get him, if he's even interested? I have no strong opinion on that. As I've said before, Marner is the kind of player who makes the rest of your guys better on the power play and given that PP production has been a persistent issue here, I can see the argument that he'd be worth a shout based on that alone. He's more of a value add than Guentzel, in my opinion.

The thing is, he's a wing so the calculations are different. There's a conversation to be had about whether ANY wing is worth the same money as an elite center, and the easy answer to that is no, but I'm not sure the easy answer is always the right one. It probably depends on the type of other players you have on the roster and how much the player buys in. Rantanen would have been absolutely fine here over time, had he been willing to even try to fit in. Turns out his heart wasn't in it. The question of whether a guy's heart is in it has to be the first thing you figure out, it turns out. With Marner, I dunno how many of the "heart" questions have to do with him and how many have to do with Toronto's general situation. I know one thing for sure. So long as Brind'Amour is coaching here, there's zero point pursuing guys who aren't team first dudes. Figure that out and you're golden.
 
To be honest, I'd rather have Jaaska on the fourth line than Jost, but this probably means somebody other than Svech is dinged up.
 
Jaaska got reassigned to Chicago after Sunday's game.

Ooo, and fun fact ... Rantanen and Stankoven both have 4 points through their first 7 games with their new teams and Rantanen is averaging less icetime in Dallas than he did for the Canes. These things will level out over time to some degree, but it's starting to feel like 90% of the narrative surrounding Rantanen's supposedly terrible fit with the Canes was hot air. No matter how all of this plays out, I'm starting to suspect that the Canes dodged a very big, very expensive bullet.
 
Lines and pairings at practice. Svech is skating on the 4th line, which is pretty much par for the course when a player returns from injury. Jost and Morrow are skating as extras, Andersen is in the starter’s crease.

Jarvis-Aho-Blake
Hall-Kotkaniemi-Roslovic
Martinook-Staal-Stankoven
Svechnikov-Jankowski-Robinson

Slavin-Burns
Orlov-Chatfield
Gostisbehere-Walker

PP1: Gostisbehere, Aho, Hall, Blake, Jarvis
PP2: Burns, Kotkaniemi, Roslovic, Svechnikov, Stankoven
 
Canes magic number is 6.

With a Canes W vs Montreal, and an Isles loss against Tampa; Canes could clinch beating the Isles on Sunday and that would be sweet as hell.
 
FWIW, I think they've found something they can build on with PP1 ... and it's not just Hall getting hot. Honestly, the bigger key has been Blake unlocking the crease pass and the rest of the guys being more diagonal with their movement. Now maybe with Svech back they can find something that works on that second unit.
 
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