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Around the League 2019-2025 Edition

JackBurton said:
Matt Barzal not at camp. But Lou would not have allowed Nylander to sit-out..
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I appreciate him for coming here, putting things in order, inventing Robidas island, etc. But this image of him being the actual godfather (that yes, we happily meme'd about while he was here) is a bit silly. The kids would have gotten similar money to what they ended up with under Dubas, or they would have ended up traded for 75 cents on the dollar out of spite.
 
MindzEye said:
Matthews and Nylander also would have gotten more money on the open market than they took to be in Toronto beyond their earliest UFA year.

Marner I won't comment on, but the other two are 100% worth more on the open market.
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You are changing the goal posts now.

Nobody mentioned "open market". They were RFAs, not impending UFAs. And Nylander's contract was above every single comparable at the time of signing.
 
leaffan2005 said:
Nobody mentioned "open market". They were RFAs, not impending UFAs.
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But they signed away UFA years. We've seen similar math used with other RFA's.

And Nylander's contract was above every single comparable at the time of signing.
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Eh? Draisaitl was one of the comparables the Nylander camp was using at the time. 122 points over the previous 2 seasons (and great P/60 & possession numbers, which absolutely get used in contract negotiations now) vs 128 points and mediocre possession numbers for Leon.
 
MindzEye said:
But they signed away UFA years. We've seen similar math used with other RFA's.



Eh? Draisaitl was one of the comparables the Nylander camp was using at the time. 122 points over the previous 2 seasons (and great P/60 & possession numbers, which absolutely get used in contract negotiations now) vs 128 points and mediocre possession numbers for Leon.
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Okay that is 1 comparable. What about Pastrnak? Gaudreau? Monahan? MacKinnon? Ehlers? Forsberg?

He got paid a premium.
 
MindzEye said:
I appreciate him for coming here, putting things in order, inventing Robidas island, etc. But this image of him being the actual godfather (that yes, we happily meme'd about while he was here) is a bit silly. The kids would have gotten similar money to what they ended up with under Dubas, or they would have ended up traded for 75 cents on the dollar out of spite.
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He also bends over for bottom 6 players.
 
leaffan2005 said:
1) Source?
2) We were right up against the cap - to say this doesn't limit your options in trade/free agency is disingenuous. At the very least it forces Dubas to have to rely on unproven minor leaguers in hopes of hitting lightning in a bottle whereas better options could have been acquired with some cap flexibility. This cost the team dearly as per our putrid record whenever we had to play anybody not named Anderson over the past 2 years. Has a big impact on playoff seeding, ability to rest your starter and preserve him for the playoffs, etc.
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We weren't up against the cap in recent years due to those contracts. We had enough capspace to pay the likes of Ceci and Zaitsev $4-5m.
 
leaffan2005 said:
Okay that is 1 comparable. What about Pastrnak? Gaudreau? Monahan? MacKinnon? Ehlers? Forsberg?

He got paid a premium.
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2yr PPG/Cap %/Term

Nylander .75/8.74%/6yrs
Pastrnak .76/8.89/6yrs
Gaudreau .89/9.25/6yrs
Monahan .77/8.73/7yrs
Draisaitl .83/11.33%/8yrs
Mackinnon .67/8.63/7yrs
Ehlers .76/8.00/6yrs
Forsberg .77/8.22/6yrs

Wants to have a rethink on your conclusion?
 
MindzEye said:
2yr PPG/Cap %/Term

Nylander .75/8.74%/6yrs
Pastrnak .76/8.89/6yrs
Gaudreau .89/9.25/6yrs
Monahan .77/8.73/7yrs
Draisaitl .83/11.33%/8yrs
Mackinnon .67/8.63/7yrs
Ehlers .76/8.00/6yrs
Forsberg .77/8.22/6yrs

Wants to have a rethink on your conclusion?
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Are you saying that he took a discount? That is your argument?
 
A lot of folks compare the Nylander contract to a 90+ point pastrnak. Pastrnak was not pastrnak when he signed the contract. He's obviously tremendously underpaid now. Almost every player in the league is overpaid if he's the standard. It's ridiculous how hung up people are on that comparison. He's a 60-65 point player (though much better last year when he got pp1 minutes). That's market value for 60-65 points
 
Best comparable there is Ehlers. Almost the same players both before and after the contract with the nerdies and traditional stats. Nylander got 0.74% of the cap more than him. Really really not going to kill the team.
 
MindzEye said:
You're arguing that he was paid a premium, I'm showing you that this simply isn't true.
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I'm okay even saying he was paid market value.

My initial argument is none of these guys took less than they could have. You can make an argument about Matthews but Nylander and Marner were paid either just above or significantly above other comparables.
 
They all signed for market value. Dubas played hard ball with Nylander and Marner. He couldn't have played it any harder with Nylander.
 
think of all the teams wasting zillions on average talent, or worse, garbage they can't play.

for once, that's not us.

our worst contract is now a 23 year old 90-100 point scorer.
 
Last 2 years, players on 2nd contracts:

Points/g
1. McDavid: 142 gp, 213 pts, 1.54 ppg
2. Draisaitl: 153 gp, 215 pts, 1.4
3. Pastrnak: 136 gp, 176 pts, 1.29
4. MacKinnon: 151 gp, 192 pts, 1.27
5. Marner: 141 gp, 162 pts, 1.15
6. Matthews: 138 gp, 153 pts. 1.11
7. Eichel: 145 gp, 160 pts, 1.10

Cap Hit%
1. McDavid - 16.7%
2. Matthews - 14.6%
3. Marner - 13.4%
4. Eichel - 13.3%
5. Rantanen - 11.3%
6. Draisaitl - 11.3%

Top 5 production, top 5 cap hit. Hard to say he is not paid market value.
 
leaffan2005 said:
My initial argument is none of these guys took less than they could have.
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But none of the examples you used were of guys who took less than they could have from their existing teams. Ovy got paid (18.96% of cap), Crosby was broken and got paid (14.5%), Giroux got 12.87% x 8 (Jamie Benn, Corey Perry, Getzlaf money at the time)

Where are these players taking less?
 
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