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Around The League - 2024-25 Regular Season

Relying on a formula that cannot be replicated at scale and is much more about luck than the actual talents of the people working for you is the recipe Detroit's followed.

...And unfortunately, I think there's a good chance we're headed down that path too if this administration has their way.
 
When elite free agents aren't an option for your team because your franchise or market is unattractive to players, you can only build the way the Habs are now. The trick is to not bail on the process. Don't wuss out and try to please impatient fans and media. Fuck them and their petty desires. Stay the course.
 
TheCountofMonteCristo said:
now wanting a competitive team when you pay 2-300 per ticket is a "petty desire,"...
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You blow large sums on all kinds of useless crap. Don't pretend to care about money now.

Habs fans will never stop spending their money on the product. They will happily be abused by the organization and come back for more. Ergo, the organization doesn't need to give a shit about their desires.
 
GrandWazoo said:
Isn't it what most tear down and reconstructions are?
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Yes and no. Yes in the sense that, it's what all teams do. No in the sense that, there's more to it than just ripping everything to shreds. There needs to be a good result because of it.

Tear downs just to restart are pointless, see the Buffalo Sabres. At the conclusion of those tear downs, the "prize" has to be elite talent in the draft. If you're a team that is tearing down and getting no elite talent? Yeah, you're not going anywhere any time soon and you're going to keep this shitty cycle going. See the current Habs. I'm terrified that management believes we've got the right "core" of young players to build a contending team.

The lottery picks are consistently the best way to acquire elite talent year over year. Unfortunately for Detroit, they haven't been in the lottery nearly enough; They got one top-5 pick with Lucas Raymond and he's arguably the best draft pick they've had since Dylan Larkin ten years ago. From 2017 to 2023, they've drafted:

2017: Michael Rasmussen (9th) - Third line depth forward who was overdrafted because he's 6'5".
2018: Filip Zadina (6th) - Euroleaguer
2019: Moritz Seider (6th) - Very good RHD. Maybe a first pairing d-man, maybe second, regardless of where you think he's best suited, a really good player.
2020: Lucas Raymond (4th) - First line forward, excellent pick.
2021: Simon Edvinsson (6th) - Early to tell, but he seems like he'll be a good top-4 d-man. TBD.
2022: Marco Kasper (8th) - Early to tell as well, but there's good potential there. TBD
2023: Nate Danielson (9th) - I have no belief in Owen Beck, but at least we didn't take him with a lottery pick. That's Nate Danielson. What the fuck.

Yzerman's first problem: For 7 seasons of being in the basement of the league, Detroit drafted what will amount to zero elite players with the draft picks that are the easiest way to acquire them. It's still hard to identify them, and you can't expect a team to get an elite talent every single time, but you have to get at least one.

Yzerman's second problem: He wasn't able to replicate Tampa Bay's luck of drafting Kucherov (58th in 2011), Palat (208th in 2011), Point (79th in 2014) and Cirelli (72nd in 2015). That was one of the hottest draft streaks for one team in the last 20 years. So much so that Tampa Bay couldn't duplicate it and they've fired their head amateur scout. Nobody's able to replicate it because drafting beyond the lottery is much more luck than it is skill. And even if we were to apply a much more clement standard to Yzerman for the non-lottery picks, it's a wasteland. Their best non-lottery draft pick since he was hired in 2019 might be Trey Augustine or Axel Sandin-Pellika from the 2023 draft? There's nothing of substance I can point to. This is Deadmonton Oilers model all over again. Pick high in the first round, but get nothing out of the rest of the ten or so draft picks.

Yzerman's third problem: He inherited a Tampa Bay team with a 20 year old Steven Stamkos and a 19 year old Victor Hedman. They'll both be in the HHOF in their first year of eligibility. Meanwhile, in Detroit, he inherited 23 year old Dylan Larkin, 24 year old Anthony Mantha & Tyler Bertuzzi, and 20 year old Filip Hronek.

All that to say, whether by hook or by crook, teams rebuilding need to acquire elite talent. Detroit hasn't done that

Despite GEEMAN's constant bellyaching that Detroit's doing a better job than San Jose (they're not), Detroit's headed nowhere. San Jose might be one or two years away from going on the upswing already while Detroit's going to be drafting in the 10 to 15 range for the foreseeable future.
 
Habsy said:
No clue what entertainment means
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#abolishthedraft

I think some real questions need to be asked to the people running sports league. Starting with,

"Why do you think it's conductive for league business to have fans cheering against their own teams in hopes of getting a better draft pick?"

Bettman is as incompetent as the northern winter is cold, he probably loves seeing teams suck for a decade.
 
GGpX said:
Yes and no. Yes in the sense that, it's what all teams do. No in the sense that, there's more to it than just ripping everything to shreds. There needs to be a good result because of it.

Tear downs just to restart are pointless, see the Buffalo Sabres. At the conclusion of those tear downs, the "prize" has to be elite talent in the draft. If you're a team that is tearing down and getting no elite talent? Yeah, you're not going anywhere any time soon and you're going to keep this shitty cycle going. See the current Habs. I'm terrified that management believes we've got the right "core" of young players to build a contending team.

The lottery picks are consistently the best way to acquire elite talent year over year. Unfortunately for Detroit, they haven't been in the lottery nearly enough; They got one top-5 pick with Lucas Raymond and he's arguably the best draft pick they've had since Dylan Larkin ten years ago. From 2017 to 2023, they've drafted:

2017: Michael Rasmussen (9th) - Third line depth forward who was overdrafted because he's 6'5".
2018: Filip Zadina (6th) - Euroleaguer
2019: Moritz Seider (6th) - Very good RHD. Maybe a first pairing d-man, maybe second, regardless of where you think he's best suited, a really good player.
2020: Lucas Raymond (4th) - First line forward, excellent pick.
2021: Simon Edvinsson (6th) - Early to tell, but he seems like he'll be a good top-4 d-man. TBD.
2022: Marco Kasper (8th) - Early to tell as well, but there's good potential there. TBD
2023: Nate Danielson (9th) - I have no belief in Owen Beck, but at least we didn't take him with a lottery pick. That's Nate Danielson. What the fuck.

Yzerman's first problem: For 7 seasons of being in the basement of the league, Detroit drafted what will amount to zero elite players with the draft picks that are the easiest way to acquire them. It's still hard to identify them, and you can't expect a team to get an elite talent every single time, but you have to get at least one.

Yzerman's second problem: He wasn't able to replicate Tampa Bay's luck of drafting Kucherov (58th in 2011), Palat (208th in 2011), Point (79th in 2014) and Cirelli (72nd in 2015). That was one of the hottest draft streaks for one team in the last 20 years. So much so that Tampa Bay couldn't duplicate it and they've fired their head amateur scout. Nobody's able to replicate it because drafting beyond the lottery is much more luck than it is skill. And even if we were to apply a much more clement standard to Yzerman for the non-lottery picks, it's a wasteland. Their best non-lottery draft pick since he was hired in 2019 might be Trey Augustine or Axel Sandin-Pellika from the 2023 draft? There's nothing of substance I can point to. This is Deadmonton Oilers model all over again. Pick high in the first round, but get nothing out of the rest of the ten or so draft picks.

Yzerman's third problem: He inherited a Tampa Bay team with a 20 year old Steven Stamkos and a 19 year old Victor Hedman. They'll both be in the HHOF in their first year of eligibility. Meanwhile, in Detroit, he inherited 23 year old Dylan Larkin, 24 year old Anthony Mantha & Tyler Bertuzzi, and 20 year old Filip Hronek.

All that to say, whether by hook or by crook, teams rebuilding need to acquire elite talent. Detroit hasn't done that

Despite GEEMAN's constant bellyaching that Detroit's doing a better job than San Jose (they're not), Detroit's headed nowhere. San Jose might be one or two years away from going on the upswing already while Detroit's going to be drafting in the 10 to 15 range for the foreseeable future.
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I agree that the goal is to get elite talent, but that’s still quite a bit of luck. In 2020, they finished dead last and lost the lottery 3 times, pushing them from 1st to 4th. Still got Raymond out of it though which might actually be better than Lafrenière.

But they also passed on Hughes so that’s on them.

You need to suck in the right seasons, or be lucky with the other picks. With about 5-6 other teams trying to rebuild every season, it’s pretty lucky if you can get one elite player from the draft when there isn’t even one elite player per draft.
 
GrandWazoo said:
I agree that the goal is to get elite talent, but that’s still quite a bit of luck. In 2020, they finished dead last and lost the lottery 3 times, pushing them from 1st to 4th. Still got Raymond out of it though which might actually be better than Lafrenière.

But they also passed on Hughes so that’s on them.

You need to suck in the right seasons, or be lucky with the other picks. With about 5-6 other teams trying to rebuild every season, it’s pretty lucky if you can get one elite player from the draft when there isn’t even one elite player per draft.
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I think it's completely abhorrent that this is not only tolerated and accepted, but openly encouraged.

In no world should leagues like the NHL & NBA have close to a quarter of their teams suck on purpose for multiple years in a row just to improve their draft positions.
 
GrandWazoo said:
By right moves you mean getting lucky and drafting Celibrini?
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Celebrini… of course. But also Smith, Dickinson, Musty, etc. They are accumulating picks through trades, got Karlsonn off the books.

They’re bad, and will be for a while. But they are gearing up for a battle with Anaheim in the future.
 
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