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Board Bets

Blueman said:
Wondering what the ruling would be if the bet was kessel vs ryan in goals - would shootout goals count?
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Shoot out goals don't count in the official NHL goal total for players. But a shoot out winner is awarded an official NHL goal.

Big difference.

I'm currently digging through the original thread to find the original language of the bet agreed upon.
 
JaysCyYoung said:
You realize that right now Ottawa is sitting outside of a playoff spot, right? I'm not wrong. You contested the drop in save percentage (right now it sits at a drop of 23 percentage points), and the fact that I said you had to have an upper-echelon offence to make up the difference.
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I was wrong about the sv % drop till this point in the season, but Anderson does look to be turning it around. He can't catch last years pace, but should lessen the impact as he returns to form.

You were wrong about the Sens and Leafs offensive production, so far.
 
Still plenty left in the season. I suspect that the Leafs will pick it up offensively again after their worst drought of the entire season, and move closer to the top ten offensive ranking that they were projected for.
 
MindzEye said:
Shoot out goals don't count in the official NHL goal total for players. But a shoot out winner is awarded an official NHL goal.

Big difference.

I'm currently digging through the original thread to find the original language of the bet agreed upon.
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The standings include a column that is called goal differential. It is used as something like the 4th tiebreaker.

If the goals really counted then they would be added to the team totals both for and against, but they don't and you know it.
Goals for from NHL.com http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm...wName=goalsFor

Goals against from NHL.com http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm...e=goalsAgainst

Please don't pull a Beleafer...you're better than that.
 
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KB:
Hilarious. Ottawa four spots back of Toronto. That's gooooooood comedy.
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Cowen is already showing signs of being an elite shutdown defenceman, with some offence as well.
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You know that part of the reason our goalie was .936-.941 was our defence, right?
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Sensible:
Methot and Cowen are both very good.

By the end of this season, this board will have seen the light if they can muster up the honesty to admit it.
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re:Cowen
This one is going to bite this board in the ass big time. Almost as bad as the Chara take post Yashin trade.
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Jared Cowen will be an impact defender. His size, skating and hitting ability all point to top level shut down D.
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nobody took me up on this bet...

I will put 10 grand on Methot not making team Canada.
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Re:Methot on the olympic team

Mnij
Marc Edward Vlasic is a better version of that guy
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Just some nostalgia from the new division thread...
 
SENSible said:
The standings include a column that is called goal differential. It is used as something like the 4th tiebreaker.
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3rd actually, when you take into account the fact that the games played will always be equal at 82. So what you're saying is that the league takes their goal differential statistic so seriously that it's the 3rd highest tie breaker to determine whether a team makes a playoff appearance or not.

Not quite sure if you're making the argument that you think you're making here. If anything you're cementing my argument for me. "Goal Differential" is a very specific term, used by the NHL (and therefore, the hockey world), and by the NHL's official tracking of it (the same number they use as a 3rd tie breaker in determining playoff seeding), we're ahead by a solid handful of goals.

If the Leafs and Sens finished dead even in points, wins, and head to head record, but the Leafs official goal diff was higher than the Sens, but the Sens had a higher unofficial goal differential...who is going to the playoffs?

If the goals really counted then they would be added to the team totals both for and against, but they don't and you know it.
Goals for from NHL.com http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm...wName=goalsFor

Goals against from NHL.com http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm...e=goalsAgainst

Please don't pull a Beleafer...you're better than that.
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They count so much that the NHL uses them as a playoff tie breaker.

I sympathise, but you used a clearly defined term as your bet determinant. This is as ridiculous as my EN example would be. You chose the language, and if you didn't understand the bet you were offering, that's on you.
 
SENSible said:
ME today is the first time you've tried to disagree with the way Zeke, Player and I have been calculating the bet. YOU are the one trying to change the bet and you know it.
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You use a statistic with an official definition, and I'm the one trying to change the bet. Gotcha.

I knew the official definition of the statistic, expected the Leafs to be on the losing end of that (because they've blown in shootouts forever) and took the bet anyway. I expected the Leafs to be significantly better overall than they've been (though the Sens are, if you flip through that thread I posted the link, about exactly where I expected them to be), but I'm glad that we haven't sucked in the shootouts this season. We deserved better last season, and worse this season.

I didn't cry about loser points when I lost my bet to Habsy last season concerning Leafs V Habs, despite the Leafs being tied with the Habs in regulations+OT wins. The shootouts count.

Clearly in the "nature of the bet", the Habs tied the Leafs last season..right? 26 ROW a piece...right? Nope. I bet on standings and lost. You bet on goal differential, and are losing. Shootouts are gay, but they have statistical ramifications and they count.
 
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MindzEye said:
3rd actually, when you take into account the fact that the games played will always be equal at 82. So what you're saying is that the league takes their goal differential statistic so seriously that it's the 3rd highest tie breaker to determine whether a team makes a playoff appearance or not.

Not quite sure if you're making the argument that you think you're making here. If anything you're cementing my argument for me. "Goal Differential" is a very specific term, used by the NHL (and therefore, the hockey world), and by the NHL's official tracking of it (the same number they use as a 3rd tie breaker in determining playoff seeding), we're ahead by a solid handful of goals.

If the Leafs and Sens finished dead even in points, wins, and head to head record, but the Leafs official goal diff was higher than the Sens, but the Sens had a higher unofficial goal differential...who is going to the playoffs?



They count so much that the NHL uses them as a playoff tie breaker.

I sympathise, but you used a clearly defined term as your bet determinant. This is as ridiculous as my EN example would be. You chose the language, and if you didn't understand the bet you were offering, that's on you.
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If you are going to try and "lawyer up" at least get your facts straight. It's the 4th tiebreaker http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm

The greater differential between goals for and against for the entire regular season. NOTE: In standings a victory in a shootout counts as one goal for, while a shootout loss counts as one goal against.
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In standings, not in reality. The teams goals for and against are clearly laid out on the stats page.

The fact that you are trying to change the bet now is simply pathetic.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/team-goal-differential/2013/

19 Toronto Maple Leafs 112 123 -11
21 Ottawa Senators 125 136 -11
 
The definition of goal differential is the same for all sports. Goals scored vs Goals allowed. You KNOW this to be true.

Stop trying to change the bet.
 
SENSible said:
The definition of goal differential is the same for all sports. Goals scored vs Goals allowed. You KNOW this to be true.

Stop trying to change the bet.
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hey jackass...I found something interesting in the same thread:

Mindz "calculation" was a complete crock of shit and based on nothing but his fertile imagination.

The Sens were +12 in goal differential last year, exactly tied with the lucky Leafs and their excellent season from Reimer and unsustainable shooting %.

Care to wager on which team has the better goal differential this season?
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Where was the only place that the Leafs and Sens were tied in goal differential last season?

That's right, in the NHL's official definition of goal differential. In this new and improved goal diff you're trying to push now, the Leafs were a +17 to the Sens +12 last season.

So you were plenty ****ing comfortable with the NHL's definition last season when it suited your purpose, and were fully aware of it.

http://www.forumice.com/showthread.php?57718-The-New-Division/page22

On almost the very same ****ing page. So why would you expect me to use some altered version of official goal differential, when you yourself used the official version during the very same argument that precipitated in the bet?

#****youpayme
 
9 ****ing posts before you offered the goal differential bet to Jays

But yeah, I'm the one trying to change definitions, trying to change the bet. You greasy **********.
 
Where was the only place that the Leafs and Sens were tied in goal differential last season?

That's right, in the NHL's official definition of goal differential. In this new and improved goal diff you're trying to push now, the Leafs were a +17 to the Sens +12 last season.
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This is accurate, they were not tied last year on goals for/against.
 
SENSible said:
Today is the first time you've disputed the calculation.
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9 posts prior to offering the bet, you used the official NHL goal differential. 9 posts.

Why would I assume that you wouldn't be using the same official standard that you had used 9 posts prior? And I still took you up on your bet that I couldn't have possibly expected to be winning due to the Leafs shootout abilities this season, considering the fact that we bitched about the Leafs shootout futility on this board a lot (the leafs were 0-5 in shootouts last season).

You argued that the Leafs were dead even (incorrect according to your new found orthodoxy to the way Zeke uses statistics...weird that you've picked this occasion to convert) in goal differential with the Sens last season, and that this season would be different because our goaltending was unsustainable (irony is a bitch, eh?).

Had you used Zeke's calculation of goal differential there and not the NHL official calculation (which of course had the Sens even with Toronto, instead of 5 goals behind like Zeke's), then I would probably agree with you here and agree to take Zeke's calculation as the bet determinant(hell, I took your bet even up back when we were tied in goal diff at 0 in the summer...why not now?)...but you clearly, clearly, clearly used the NHL official definition in the immediate run up to offering the bet, ignoring the calculation that would have shown the Sens to be the lesser of the two teams in goal differential last season.

and still, knowing that my team sucks in shootout and would be behind the 8 ball due to that, I didn't just take your bet, but did it ****ing happily.

Again. You named the terms of the bet, you used the NHL official definition of the statistic in question a mere 9 posts prior to your bet offering, and I accepted the implied terms.

I've changed nothing. You're trying to change things half way through because it's looking like you'll be down 300 bones.
 
SENSible said:
Today is the first time you've disputed the calculation.
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Not important. What is important is that minutes prior to offering the bet, you used the NHL's official goal differential. You clearly weren't using "the calculation" on that particular day. We both know why, because it suited your argument at the time. Just like you're using Zeke's preferred calculation right now, because it suits your argument now.

I didn't challenge you on technicalities then, and I'm holding you to the essence of your wager now. I gave you your perceived advantage at the time, without haggling (which I'm known to do about the terms of a bet...remember Corky getting all cranky with me over the Karlsson bet he would have taken my money on this summer had he sacked up?). Now I'm holding you to your original terms. Hilarious really that after all of your crying over the years about Zeke's spinning with numbers, that you're clinging to his style of calculation instead of the officially posted NHL count.
 
and before you cry that I would be trying to flip this if the situation were reversed, I again point towards my bet with Habsy last season that I only lost because of the respective shootout records of the 2 teams. No whining, no crying, I lost the bet according to the terms of the bet.

Just like you're currently losing the bet as per the original terms.

Shootouts suck, but they count.
 
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