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Board Bets

Wayward DP said:
And when you agreed upon the bet, was there any explicit mention of using the "officially tracked NHL goal differential"? You've implied that term into the agreement, but at the time, nobody specified.
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This is where it becomes clear to me. The term "goal differential" is a term invented by the NHL that refers to the actual stat they track. If you are using any modified version of the stat then you'd have to clarify that... otherwise you'd have to assume you're referring to the actual stat.


Just like +/-... they don't count power play goals in +/-. If you make a +/- bet you'd have to specify if you want to include power play goals because the stat itself doesn't actually include power play goals.
 
Wayward DP said:
This is a fair point. I just think its disingenuous, after having measured goal differential excluding shootouts to this point in the season, to make a stink about it now.
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I'm not the one making a stink. I'm the one holding his ground on the original terms of the bet. The "stink" is from people who are using a mixture of idiocy and emotional bullshit to try to get me to come off of the one clearly proper position: honouring the original terms of the bet.
 
Maybe he didn't realize that the NHL goal differential column was calculating it that way?

zeke and player noticed and he agreed immediately...to the benefit of no one at the time.

Question: would you have still taken the bet if it was made clear that goal differential = goals for - goals against? My guess is that you would...because that's the true meaning of what goal differential is.
 
corksens said:
This board has always defined goal differential as goals for minus goals against - largely due to our overwhelming mutual disdain for the shootout.

Unless it was explicitly stated that you are using the NHL standings for the bet, I think the board consensus should apply...as player and zeke make sure of.
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I don't believe this is true. I've never seen anyone refer to that term other than in reference to the actual tracked stat. Maybe it's happened but it's far from a consensus from what I have seen.
 
Habspatrol said:
This is where it becomes clear to me. The term "goal differential" is a term invented by the NHL that refers to the actual stat they track. If you are using any modified version of the stat then you'd have to clarify that... otherwise you'd have to assume you're referring to the actual stat.


Just like +/-... they don't count power play goals in +/-. If you make a +/- bet you'd have to specify if you want to include power play goals because the stat itself doesn't actually include power play goals.
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Goal differential pre-dates the shootout.

Even at the beginning some sites were tracking it differently - such as ESPN - which was widely used on this board because they didn't track the shootout results in their real numbers.
 
corksens said:
Maybe he didn't realize that the NHL goal differential column was calculating it that way?

zeke and player noticed and he agreed immediately...to the benefit of no one at the time.

Question: would you have still taken the bet if it was made clear that goal differential = goals for - goals against? My guess is that you would...because that's the true meaning of what goal differential is.
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I probably would have. But here we are, a few months later with my side of the original bet holding an advantage. Why am I giving that up again?

You should feel great though, he's already admitted that he's going to welch if he loses because he "feels" that he's offered a fair alternative to the bet he agreed upon months ago, so what's your issue?
 
Habspatrol said:
Just like +/-... they don't count power play goals in +/-. If you make a +/- bet you'd have to specify if you want to include power play goals because the stat itself doesn't actually include power play goals.
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What? +/- has never counted PP/PK goals. Why would you have to specify anything?

This is only an issue because the definition of goal differential has changed since the implementation of the shootout. This board has long held that GF don't include shootout winners.
 
MindzEye said:
He explicitly used the officially tracked NHL goal differential as part of his argument in the run up to offering the wager, 9 posts prior to offering the wager.
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But not in the wager itself. The only term there was goal differential.

He did, quite clearly specify. And again, since when does something with an official designation require additional clarity. When you're introducing an alternative to the official meaning, then I agree that additional clarification would be necessary.
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When there are multiple interpretations of a term (i.e. 'goal differential')
 
MindzEye said:
I probably would have. But here we are, a few months later with my side of the original bet holding an advantage. Why am I giving that up again?

You should feel great though, he's already admitted that he's going to welch if he loses because he "feels" that he's offered a fair alternative to the bet he agreed upon months ago, so what's your issue?
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And I support that 100% because you are trying to hold your advantage on a technicality.
 
corksens said:
Goal differential pre-dates the shootout.

Even at the beginning some sites were tracking it differently - such as ESPN - which was widely used on this board because they didn't track the shootout results in their real numbers.
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I'm not so sure that exact term was being used before the NHL started tracking it. Some people may have used it but it wasn't a widely used term.
 
corksens said:
What? +/- has never counted PP/PK goals. Why would you have to specify anything?

This is only an issue because the definition of goal differential has changed since the implementation of the shootout. This board has long held that GF don't include shootout winners.
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Because both are NHL tracked stats. If you're going to modify them you'd have to specify that. I can't even see how this is up for debate.

How about if we were betting on the Leafs GAA? You said it would be over 2.30 and both goalie posted exactly a 2.30 GAA. But the NHL had the Leafs GAA as 2.32 because they had allowed a few empty net goals.
 
Wayward DP said:
But not in the wager itself. The only term there was goal differential.
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Which he posted an example of his personal usage of, 9 posts prior. A usage that was consistent with the same usage I was holding his side of the bet to now. But that he's made clear he won't honour, despite agreeing to it originally.

Goal differential is an officially tracked statistic.



When there are multiple interpretations of a term (i.e. 'goal differential')
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You would use the official unless otherwise clarified, no?
 
Habspatrol said:
Because both are NHL tracked stats. If you're going to modify them you'd have to specify that. I can't even see how this is up for debate.
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That makes 2 of us. This has been an eye opening discussion for me. I don't bet with people like this. Too many "feels", no ****ing honour. If you make a bad, shitty bet, if you lose you eat it and move on. Sensible made a shitty bet (that might still play out for him). To think that I can safely bet with Captain Bolduke and not people like Corky and PSP hurts my ****ing brain.
 
Because both are NHL tracked stats. If you're going to modify them you'd have to specify that. I can't even see how this is up for debate.
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Why would you have to specify? They both add up the same number.

This is an issue because the NHL.com goal differential and the commonly held understanding of what goal differential means are different - and that wasn't clarified by Mindz.
 
corksens said:
Why would you have to specify? They both add up the same number.

This is an issue because the NHL.com goal differential and the commonly held understanding of what goal differential means are different - and that wasn't clarified by Mindz.
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1 more time...and read it slowly.

Sensible...

used....

that definition....

At the time....

of the.....

bet......
 
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