BKerr
Banned
Yup 55 point guy who plays against the other teams top lines is very valuable, especially at age 25.
Buyouts
- Thread starter hobarth
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Yup 55 point guy who plays against the other teams top lines is very valuable, especially at age 25.
Kadri started the year with JVR but he's not much of a passer so neither started well however when Grabner was put with Kadri and JVR with Bozak they both scored at a better pace. Kadri is going to be 26 in Oct., not old but definitely not young. Why was Kadri better with Grabner than JVR, probably because Kadri needs to play with players that get him the puck.
Leafin'
Well-known member
If memory serves me Kadri did very well with Lupul on his wing in prior years. I'm not sure how much of his "lack of production" can be attributed to the teammates he's played with over the last 2 seasons. Komarov has helped him quite a bit this year. His uncharacteristically low shooting percentage to start the year also has had a major impact. As its leveled back to careers norms we've seen him play at a near 60 point pace.
I like the Kadri i've seen this year. I think the only way i feel comfortable moving him is if we sign Stamkos and draft Matthews. Maybe Nylander supplants Kadri as a #2 center. Until then i roll with as many skilled centers as i can get a hold of. Marner may still be developed as a center for all we know.
Bozak is the guy to go. Too bad he wasn't healthy closer to the deadline as his improved play this year could have been parlayed into something decent. We'll probably still be able to move him at the draft for futures.
I like the Kadri i've seen this year. I think the only way i feel comfortable moving him is if we sign Stamkos and draft Matthews. Maybe Nylander supplants Kadri as a #2 center. Until then i roll with as many skilled centers as i can get a hold of. Marner may still be developed as a center for all we know.
Bozak is the guy to go. Too bad he wasn't healthy closer to the deadline as his improved play this year could have been parlayed into something decent. We'll probably still be able to move him at the draft for futures.
Pronger84
Active member
Kadri does well with a guy who likes to get open and just unleash, thats why he was good with Lupul... Kadri could dangle/carry the puck all he wanted without interference, then he would dish it off to Lupul who unleashed his shot. Kadri is bringing it this year.... but I have to question how much of it is because he knows hes on a one year contract and that he has competition for his spot? Kadri works best when he's motivated and he has a history of being complacent at times, if hes given a long term deal can he maintain it or does he get sloppy again?
leafman101
Well-known member
Kadri wasn't better with Grabner than JVR. With JVR Kadri was up among the league leader in shots and chances created. He just had an insanely low shooting percentage. It was just bad puck luck. Which has turned around since.
Pronger84
Active member
I wouldn't use the word "bad puck luck" to describe it, because its woefully inaccurate IMO. Yes, Kadri took a lot of shots early on but most of them were from the permieter or far out, and lets face it Kadri doesn't have a truly NHL calibre shot, so most of them were easy saves for the opposing goalie. Kadri finally smartned up and realized to get goals he had to get them from near the net, to his credit thats what he did, and also he used his playmaking skills to his advantage, which IMO is his true bread and butter.
leafman101
Well-known member
Nah, its actually very accurate. He is playing the same. He is still top 20 in shots but his shooting % has crept up to 6% on the season and he is producing.
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I remember the Lupul Kadri connection during the short season, I think Kadri picked up half of his 40 points during the 16 games Lupul was healthy and that was possible because they played against the opposition's 3rd lines. They played protected minutes, Lupul did the grunt work, Kadri lurked and converted. In Kadri's 2nd year he scored 50 points again because of the few healthy Lupul stretches. Kadri, like Wilson and BB said should be a winger but because of TO's laughable lack of centers TO hasn't had other viable options. In lieu of playmaking ability Kadri has become Jason Blake, his only true passing ability is passing to the d.
He is better this year but to say he's better means the comparison is against a very low bar. Kadri and JVR are the same type of player, they feed on the ability of their linemates, decent complimentary players but neither are primary players, stars.
He is better this year but to say he's better means the comparison is against a very low bar. Kadri and JVR are the same type of player, they feed on the ability of their linemates, decent complimentary players but neither are primary players, stars.
leafman101
Well-known member
Sure, but you can't sign stars for $5 million a year. That is 2nd liner money. Kadri is an ideal 2nd liner. He can play against the other teams top lines, drive possession, chip in 20 goals and 50+ points. Play on the PP, PK. Is good on the draws. Draws a ton of penalties. Plus at 25 he is still getting better.
Really Kadri is the ideal 2nd line center.
He has actually been very, very good this year.
Really Kadri is the ideal 2nd line center.
He has actually been very, very good this year.
Preston_Mizzi
Banned
Not to mention Kadri's on-ice shooting percentage was ridiculously high. Most people predicted that without the mass amount of luck he received, he would have been at a 50 point pace, 60 tops. People overrated Kadri back then just like they underrated him at the start of this year.
Preston_Mizzi
Banned
You can't scrap everyone. That would be a bit ridiculous. Ideally some entry level guys give you quality 2nd/1st line production though. Having a first line of all 7 million dollar players (because that's the market value of first liners at the minimum) and 2nd line of all 5 million dollar players (because that's the market value of 2nd liners at the minimum) would never work out, but that doesn't mean you can't have any 5 shmil players. In general I'd prefer overpaying for first line talent than paying 2nd liners at market value, since you can get that type of 2nd line production from entry level guys on well drafting teams..... but with the exception of JVR, the Leafs have neither first nor second line talent right now so there is no reason to get rid of Kadri and continue delaying the rebuild.
He's an ideal 2nd line center on a bad team or probably an ideal 2nd line winger on any team but until he produces numbers reflecting a 5 mil. $ player he will simply be another contractual anchor. He has 2 years of RFAdom left, another show me contract is in order but before TO commits to him with any kind of term he needs to produce not almost produce.
My point exactly, his current contract is fine because he is an adequate $4 mil player, maybe even above average.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Nazem Kadri: .58ppg 53.8 CF% (2.1 CFRel) 50.4 FO%
Artem Anisimov: .54ppg 50.8CF% (-1.4 CFRel) 45.2 FO%
Vince Trochek: .63ppg 50.0 CF% (.9 CFRel), 48.6 FO%
Tyler Johnson: .54ppg 52.5 CF% (.2 CFRel), 49.7 FO%
Dylan Larkin: .64ppg 52.0 CF% (-2.3 CFRel), 44.1 FO%
David Backes: .53ppg 49.6 CF% (-3.2 CFRel) 52.0 FO%
Derek Stepan: .58ppg 49.4 CF% (.9 CFRel) 46.3 FO%
Ryan Kesler: .54ppg 54.3 CF% (.7 CFRel) 58.2 FO%
Frans Nieslen: .62ppg 51.9CF% (1.3 CFRel) 50.3 FO%
There are the 2nd line centres for some of best teams in hockey....Naz has been better than all over them this year (similar point production in similar minutes, but with superior possession play)
There are a few teams (Washington, San Jose, Boston) who have 1st line quality centres as their #2 centre, but the vast majority of playoff quality (and contender level) hockey teams have 2nd line centres in who aren't as good as Nazem Kadri.
LM was right, he's a pretty ideal 2nd line centre, unless you're one of the few teams fortunate enough to have a legitimate #1 centre as your 2nd line centre.
You really can't be one of these people who think he's a winger.....
"Numbers reflecting 5 million"
Do you even know what that means? What offensive numbers reflect a 5 million dollar cap hit?
These are the forwards who made exactly 5 million this year....I'm only going to post their PPG, because as we've already learned above, in the possession end of things Naz is already very, very good.
Radim Vrbata: .42ppg
Cammalleri: .90ppg
Plekanec: .73ppg (who has been extended at 6.5M for this level of production)
Matt Moulson: .24ppg
Grabovski: .44ppg
Filppula: .43ppg
Kesler: .54ppg (has also been extended at 6.5M)
James Neal: .61ppg
Brassard: .74
So what have we learned? Kadri's production would be above average at the 5M dollar mark, and centres who consistently produce at his level (or a bit higher) are being extended for 6.5M. The problem here would be your knowledge of the market.
Except he has produced at a 5M dollar rate offensively (while playing with nobody of any offensive pedigree), while bringing high end possession driving ability, the ability to draw penalties at an elite rate, and what has rapidly developed into a quality 200 foot game as a centre....if that hits the market, we're not getting him for 5M dollars. You need to better acquaint yourself with what 5M dollars buys.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
He's a fairly large bargain at 4.1M. You're not well acquainted with the cost of things in the NHL.
leafman101
Well-known member
leafman101
Well-known member
