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Four Nations

zeke said:
written by a rampant adulterer and murderer.


and you think morality is at a low point today!
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You are correct. And it always struck me as odd that King David had to be confronted by Nathan before he repented of his sin? No doubt he was aware of his sins well before that point, being raised with The Torah. And yet, God forgave him. Who are we to question Gods wisdom?
 
GeneralT001 said:
You are correct. And it always struck me as odd that King David had to be confronted by Nathan before he repented of his sin? No doubt he was aware of his sins well before that point, being raised with The Torah. And yet, God forgave him. Who are we to question Gods wisdom?
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We don't need to question God's wisdom, thankfully, just the wisdom of the people thousands of years ago who did all that wickedness in those stories and wrote all those stories down.

But it's interesting that you think we are obviously in the end days, which must be because you think we live in an age of extreme wickedness and strife - when those old testament days were obviously much more wicked and strife-ridden.
 
zeke said:
We don't need to question God's wisdom, thankfully, just the wisdom of the people thousands of years ago who did all that wickedness in those stories and wrote all those stories down.

But it's interesting that you think we are obviously in the end days, which must be because you think we live in an age of extreme wickedness and strife - when those old testament days were obviously much more wicked and strife-ridden.
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Not correct. The reason I believe we are in those days is because Israel is a nation and the Jews have returned en masse back to Israel. Those are key prophecies that needed to be fulfilled before The Messiah can reveal himself. The Oct 7 attack was also a necessary evil for prophecy. The only real remaining shoe to fall will be Gog of Magog ( when the Arab States launch a massive attack against Israel - probably with support from China/Russia). How far off? I hope before 2030.

Btw, another thing that bugs me is King Solomon, the wisest man who ever lived and yet he is waist deep in idol worship?? I know, the standard narrative is that he did that for political reasons (forge alliances with other nations), but really?? I have a tough time with that.

I guess the bottom line however is God exists. Ex nihilo nihil fit "nothing comes from nothing" He left us an instruction book (maybe thats why the first trial ended up in a flood)?
 
GeneralT001 said:
Not correct. The reason I believe we are in those days is because Israel is a nation and the Jews have returned en masse back to Israel.
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what if i told you that Israel only became a nation specifically because people who shared your belief were trying to fulfill that very biblical prophecy?

GeneralT001 said:
Those are key prophecies that needed to be fulfilled before The Messiah can reveal himself. The Oct 7 attack was also a necessary evil for prophecy. The only real remaining shoe to fall will be Gog of Magog ( when the Arab States launch a massive attack against Israel - probably with support from China/Russia). How far off? I hope before 2030.
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All these prophecies have already been "fulfilled" many times over throughout history, only to be shifted to future events when they didn't usher in the end of days.

GeneralT001 said:
Btw, another thing that bugs me is King Solomon, the wisest man who ever lived and yet he is waist deep in idol worship?? I know, the standard narrative is that he did that for political reasons (forge alliances with other nations), but really?? I have a tough time with that.
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Yes immorality and violence were just a regular part of life back then. It was nasty times. Much nastier than now. There is no reason to believe we are in the end of days by any biblical measure. We live in the most moral, safest, healthiest, wealthiest, and most peaceful time in human history, by far.

GeneralT001 said:
I guess the bottom line however is God exists. Ex nihilo nihil fit "nothing comes from nothing" He left us an instruction book (maybe thats why the first trial ended up in a flood)?
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If nothing comes from nothing, then where did God come from?
 
zeke said:
what if i told you that Israel only became a nation specifically because people who shared your belief were trying to fulfill that very biblical prophecy?



All these prophecies have already been "fulfilled" many times over throughout history, only to be shifted to future events when they didn't usher in the end of days.



Yes immorality and violence were just a regular part of life back then. It was nasty times. Much nastier than now. There is no reason to believe we are in the end of days by any biblical measure. We live in the most moral, safest, healthiest, wealthiest, and most peaceful time in human history, by far.



If nothing comes from nothing, then where did God come from?
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God came from super God


But really the answer is "the first mover" theory
 
Less than half of the world's jews live in Israel. They have not returned to Israel en masse. The entire aliyah itself only represents about 3 million jews in total since 1948, a fairly small fraction of all jewish people.

But yeah, your types will always make up whatever they need to for a "prophecy" to be made to fit their personal narrative. You're not remotely unique.
 
GeneralT001 said:
You are correct. And it always struck me as odd that King David had to be confronted by Nathan before he repented of his sin? No doubt he was aware of his sins well before that point, being raised with The Torah. And yet, God forgave him. Who are we to question Gods wisdom?
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I don't question His wisdom. I question his existence. Actually, that's not true. I don't question it because I'm confident that God does not exist, full stop.

But if I were to indulge the concept just for the sake of argument, I can only come up with 3 possible scenarios :

1. God exists but is an asshole who enjoys causing misery or, at least, is cool with allowing misery to happen.

2. God exists but is an impotent giant, unable to alter the course of events.

3. God does not and never did exist. He is an invention of Man first used as a way of explaining the unexplainable and shortly after, a tool by which the powerful control the masses.

No matter which of these 3 scenarios with which you align yourself, praying and worshipping seems pointless. God either doesn't care, is unable to help, or is nonexistent.
 
Kind of a moot point as it did happen. Gods plan?

The end of days prophecies are specific to this era, so they cannot have already been fulfilled (Ezekiel 37 for example - the valley of dry bones).

Was it nastier back then? Supposedly we are a more "enlightened" generation, relative to them, and yet we have 2 World Wars (with the holocaust) under our belts. The butchery of Hamas - cooking babies alive - untold millions of aborted babies (which is akin to child sacrifice of old). How many wars raging in the world right now (40-50). I could go on but to say we are a better world is a very long stretch.

It is more rational to believe that an immortal God exist than to believe that nothing can come from nothing. The complexity and precision in nature points to a Divine hand. God expects any thinking mind to come to that realization on their own.
 
MindzEye said:
Less than half of the world's jews live in Israel. They have not returned to Israel en masse. The entire aliyah itself only represents about 3 million jews in total since 1948, a fairly small fraction of all jewish people.

But yeah, your types will always make up whatever they need to for a "prophecy" to be made to fit their personal narrative. You're not remotely unique.
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It is a pretty dramatic ingathering to a country which only came into existence very recently, which is the point.
 
GeneralT001 said:
It is a pretty dramatic ingathering to a country which only came into existence very recently, which is the point.
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Is it? About 6x more Mexicans have immigrated to their incestral promised land since 1965 than Jews have to their promised land since 1948, and that's just the legal ones. Add the "illegals" and you're up to about 10x.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
I don't question His wisdom. I question his existence. Actually, that's not true. I don't question it because I'm confident that God does not exist, full stop.

But if I were to indulge the concept just for the sake of argument, I can only come up with 3 possible scenarios :

1. God exists but is an asshole who enjoys causing misery or, at least, is cool with allowing misery to happen.

2. God exists but is an impotent giant, unable to alter the course of events.

3. God does not and never did exist. He is an invention of Man first used as a way of explaining the unexplainable and shortly after, a tool by which the powerful control the masses.

No matter which of these 3 scenarios with which you align yourself, praying and worshipping seems pointless. God either doesn't care, is unable to help, or is nonexistent.
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I will humor you with a response:

1. Who can know the mind of God? As He says "My ways are not your ways". Does anyone honestly think they can fathom the depth of Gods mind? Thats insanity.

2. Creation has a plan. God does not do anything without reason. That we are not allowed to know more than we do is not by accident. "The Heavens above declare the glory of God". Nature alone should be enough to see that God exists. Btw al least 70% (probably more) believe in a God. This desire to believe or at least contemplate God is hard wired into us. No avoiding it.

3. Psalm 14.

Bottom line. God is not on your timetable and will accomplish His desire at the time He appoints. What arrogance of man to think he can possibly truly fathom what God has deemed. God is outside of time. Time is a construct for us alone.
 
MindzEye said:
Is it? About 6x more Mexicans have immigrated to their incestral promised land since 1965 than Jews have to their promised land since 1948, and that's just the legal ones. Add the "illegals" and you're up to about 10x.
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What does that have to do with Gods promise/covenant with the Jewish nation? The question you need to ask yourself is how has the Jewish nation been able to survive throughout history. They should have ceased to exist long ago. God will not allow that. In the end remember Zechariah 8:23.
 
Pwner said:
Tell the truth: were you bummed out when Schneerson didn't get resurrected?
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Not in the least. But it does raise an interesting thought wrt Jesus. If The only sign Jesus would give of his divinity/messiahship was that of Jonah (3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the great fish re 3 days and 3 nights in the grave) why wasn't there a least 1 Pharisee (orthodox Rabbi) or at least 1 Apostle at the grave/tomb to witness this resurrection to confirm his divinity? Makes no sense.

Having women dress the dead body of a man is also something that would have never happened
 
GeneralT001 said:
The question you need to ask yourself is how has the Jewish nation been able to survive throughout history.
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It didn't. It disappeared for almost 400 years and was brought back by people specifically attempting to recreate it for the purpose of fulfilling the prophecy, and we're almost 80 yrs deep into it's recreation and nada.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
If God's "plan" is for planes to fly into buildings, for children to starve or for Trump to be dictator then God and his plan can go fuck themselves.
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God gave us the Earth to live on and enjoy together. He gave us a play book to achieve that. If you or others are not willing to live by Gods wisdom then it is not God who is at fault.
 
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