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GDT #27: 16/11/2021 - Interesting Week

Now that we're allowed to discuss contracts again I'll go ahead and say that they're all overpaid (except willy) until they do something in the playoffs. Do I think it's more likely they eventually do something than not? Yes. But another embarrassing exit and fuck em all. They are very clearly and obviously incredibly dominant players who take a shit on the NHL in the season. No reason for them to do what they've done the last two playoffs.
 
leafman101 said:
Its pretty tough argument that he's not a complete player. He's played in all situations, against tough comp, very successfully and consistently for a contending team, ever since he entered the league.
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There's a difference between being played in all situations and being good at all situations.

He's been the worst of our PK forwards for a while now by the numbers, and has pretty mediocre power play results over the last 2 seasons (including of course, the no goals thing).

Does he back check, can he be trusted defensively in D zone faceoffs and such? Absolutely. Like I said, I'm not up here calling him Kessel. But there's definite holes in his game. I mean, we just watched him completely disappear when the games get a bit more physical than he likes, didn't we? Which part of complete is that?
 
leafman101 said:
If we are being honest, JT is way more overpaid than Marner is. Marner is paid like a top 5-10 winger and top 10-15 forward in the league and he is clearly one of those.

JT is also paid like that.
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That's fair with a slight clarification.

Marner is paid like a top 3 winger, not a top 5-10 winger. The #5 highest paid winger in hockey makes 1.4 million less than Mitch, and the #10 makes 1.9 less. That's not an inconsequential difference in cap spend.

Is Marner a top 3 winger? Over the last few years: 5th in A/60, 5th in 1A/60, 11th in P/60. Top 10 winger, yeah absolutely. But I don't think there's a great argument for him being better than Kuch, Marchand, Ovy, Stone, Kane, Pastrnak though if we're talking about sneaking him into the top 5 somehow.

JT is definitely a step down from that level though. Probably a top 15-20 centre at this point. That's a 7.5-8 million dollar player.
 
MindzEye said:
There's a difference between being played in all situations and being good at all situations.

He's been the worst of our PK forwards for a while now by the numbers, and has pretty mediocre power play results over the last 2 seasons (including of course, the no goals thing).

Does he back check, can he be trusted defensively in D zone faceoffs and such? Absolutely. Like I said, I'm not up here calling him Kessel. But there's definite holes in his game. I mean, we just watched him completely disappear when the games get a bit more physical than he likes, didn't we? Which part of complete is that?
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We saw Matthews disappear too. I don't hear you calling him incomplete or overpaid.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
We saw Matthews disappear too. I don't hear you calling him incomplete or overpaid.
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No, but you will hear me question whether he's this generation's Mike Bossy who is incredible but never healthy, if you ask nice.

He's also a top 2-3 centre in the world and a top 5 player. A signficant step up from Mitch.
 
I don’t get why they didn’t just sign Marner to a bridge contract if he was demanding to be the highest paid winger in the league. There was always a chance he’d earn it, and maybe he has, but you can’t argue that Marner wasn’t seriously overpaid compared to every other winger coming off an entry level deal, ever.

Saying Tavares is more overpaid than Marner doesn’t make sense to me either. The rules that applied to them when they signed their contracts were not the same. Like complaining it’s unfair that Marcus Semien makes more money than Vladdy.
 
Tavares was the biggest UFA since Chara in 06' and a #1 star C in his prime. He took the least amount of $ to sign with the Leafs. Context is needed with that compared to marner.
 
I especially liked how they hemmed in the Preds on more than one occasion last night. Just a great complete win.
 
MindzEye said:
Just because someone else would have offered more, that doesn't make him not overpaid at 11m.

5th highest paid player in the league, and would be lucky if he was a top 30 player. That's overpaid.
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Panarin got the same money just a year later I think, and not a center and not scoring as much as Tavares.

He got a fair deal.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Panarin got the same money just a year later I think, and not a center and not scoring as much as Tavares.

He got a fair deal.
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Tavares as a Leaf: .98ppg (26th)
Panarin as a Ranger: 1.33ppg (4th)

Also...Panarin has 53 goals as a Ranger. Tavares has 53 goals since Panarin became a Ranger.

But yes, Panarin is a centre. You got me there.
 
I’m sure you could do a little better than that if you were so inclined. How many goals did each score the year before their UfA deal? The year after? Since the deals overall? This year? Didn’t you assign much more value to goals when it came to the Matty and Marner comparison?
 
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