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GDT #8 - 2023/10/28 - TOR @ NSH 7pm - LoF Revenge Game

3v3 xga/60 last 3yrs (since kampf joined the team).

min 5min

1. Kampf 1.38
2. Kerfoot 4.62
3. Marner 6.79
4. Matthews 7.42
5. Nylander 7.79
6. Tavares 8.65


and that's with Kampf spending 0 seconds in the offensive zone and barely any seconds in the neutral zone.
 
All I'll say is that I was on lofs side but zeke convinced me that the Kampf thing is entirely logical. Kampf being a 4c doesn't matter as much to me because he's the most expendable guy to waste in that scenario. If they had a good 3c, for example, I'd rather he's fresh for a legit shift himself. With Kampf, he just does the bitch work and gets off and they have all their guys that will be used in an offensive role rested and ready to rock.
 
Matthews would have to be way better at puck retrieval and general defending/preventing goals at 3 on 3 to justify wasting him for the first 2 minutes (and maybe longer due to fatigue) of an overtime. Not just a little better, way better. If we can find data that he is, then I can be swayed back the other way.
 
I don't think it's overly relevant. There's a good argument for simply not wanting Matthews wasting what little time he gets in 3v3 on that side of the puck. He gets maybe 3 shifts if it goes the distance, why waste the first on him puck chasing, even if he's good at it?
 
Preston said:
All I'll say is that I was on lofs side but zeke convinced me that the Kampf thing is entirely logical. Kampf being a 4c doesn't matter as much to me because he's the most expendable guy to waste in that scenario. If they had a good 3c, for example, I'd rather he's fresh for a legit shift himself. With Kampf, he just does the bitch work and gets off and they have all their guys that will be used in an offensive role rested and ready to rock.
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I just don't see it this way.

If he wins the faceoff and gets off, okay cool, whatever, then his presence is irrelevant. But he's not a faceoff wizard, certainly not this season so far, so he's not even the ideal person if we want to win the draw.

If he loses it, then we're far less likely to recover the puck because now we have a guy who stinks and isn't good at stealing the puck or anything, or rushing it up the ice, and just (supposedly) good at preventing chances against. Great, so we spend his whole shift defending, and you like his ability to defend, and maybe they score or maybe they don't. But he's stuck out there, like he was last night, and we've burned 2 minutes of OT.

Let Matthews get drained if that happens, or quickly recover the puck and go on the attack. And if he gets gassed, guess what, we have Nylander, Tavares, Marner, Bertuzzi, Knies, a bunch of guys who can play for a couple of minutes while he rests. And all guys who can score and end it while he's off. It is totally absurd to roll with a guy who can't do shit but defend after he loses a faceoff.

Last night illustrated the case perfectly, and everyone is typing away like they didn't watch that fiasco unfold. Kampf couldn't get off. I'd rather Matthews start and be defending in that scenario and trying to get the puck back. I'd rather start the OT with Tavares if winning the faceoff is the primary objective, since he's so fucking good at it. Sorry, I don't want Kampf dicking around out there for half of OT and scorching our chances of scoring and avoiding the SO, which is the bearded lady with two penises of the OT circus act.
 
I mean if Matthews and Tavares had a track record of crushing OTs then I could get the angst but they've been pretty frustrating overall in OT.
 
Takeaways per 60 in 3yrs since Kampf joined the Leafs

Marner 3.44
Matthews 3.20
Nylander 2.56
Kampf 2.06
Bunting 2.02
Kerfoot 1.98
Acciari 1.90
Tavares 1.84
Mikheyev 1.78
Engvall 1.56
Simmonds 1.34
Holmberg 1.28
ZAR 1.28
Jarnkrok 1.12
 
zeke said:
I mean if Matthews and Tavares had a track record of crushing OTs then I could get the angst but they've been pretty frustrating overall in OT.
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Everyone on the team has been frustrating, but OTs are shitshows that breed frustration.

Either they win it in spectacular fashion, which we've seen what, 20-25 times with this core, or they lose. When they lose, it's fucking annoying.

I'd rather lose playing the best players, than watch our worst players burn the 5 minutes we have to avoid the gimmick round.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Let Matthews get drained if that happens, or quickly recover the puck and go on the attack. And if he gets gassed, guess what, we have Nylander, Tavares, Marner, Bertuzzi, Knies, a bunch of guys who can play for a couple of minutes while he rests. And all guys who can score and end it while he's off. It is totally absurd to roll with a guy who can't do shit but defend after he loses a faceoff.
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Seen it happen very often, don't like it, they usually end up losing. This minimizes the thing I don't like so I support it. I see your point too and it was my original opinion but there's a lot of logic around letting Kampf do the thing that doesn't require any unique talent. Don't waste Matthews doing bitch work. Make sure you have possession, or his OT is nearly done on the first shift of not touching the puck at all and doing things that garbage like Kampf is capable of (following players on man on man coverage).

The only loss I can see is if there's a fast counter attack that results in an odd man rush and it's David Kampf leading the way. That's the downside and it isn't insignificant, but it would depend on objective data on how often that even happens.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Last night illustrated the case perfectly, and everyone is typing away like they didn't watch that fiasco unfold. Kampf couldn't get off. I'd rather Matthews start and be defending in that scenario and trying to get the puck back. I'd rather start the OT with Tavares if winning the faceoff is the primary objective, since he's so fucking good at it. Sorry, I don't want Kampf dicking around out there for half of OT and scorching our chances of scoring and avoiding the SO, which is the bearded lady with two penises of the OT circus act.
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Kampf was on the ice for 46 seconds and the preds didn't score while he was out there. They didn't even get a shot attempt.
 
My point was explicitly that, when we lose, of course it's fucking frustrating.

We're not so frustrated all those times we've won with the stars.
 
Preston said:
Seen it happen very often, don't like it, they usually end up losing. This minimizes the thing I don't like so I support it. I see your point too and it was my original opinion but there's a lot of logic around letting Kampf do the thing that doesn't require any unique talent. Don't waste Matthews doing bitch work. Make sure you have possession, or his OT is nearly done on the first shift of not touching the puck at all and doing things that garbage like Kampf is capable of (following players on man on man coverage).

The only loss I can see is if there's a fast counter attack that results in an odd man rush and it's David Kampf leading the way. That's the downside and it isn't insignificant, but it would depend on objective data on how often that even happens.
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Whatever, you can have your position.

I don't agree with playing one of our worst players in OT.

It's criminal when all these awesome players are available.

Not wanting to burn out a star, when we've seen these stars all play lots in OT and be fine for second and even third shifts, isn't something that worries me. We have incredible forward depth for 3v3 and we should rely on it.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Everyone on the team has been frustrating, but OTs are shitshows that breed frustration.

Either they win it in spectacular fashion, which we've seen what, 20-25 times with this core, or they lose. When they lose, it's fucking annoying.

I'd rather lose playing the best players, than watch our worst players burn the 5 minutes we have to avoid the gimmick round.
Click to expand...

the leafs have never lost at 3v3 with Kampf on the ice.
 
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