• Moderators, please send me a PM if you are unable to access mod permissions. Thanks, Habsy.

GDT: Habs @ New and Improved Leafs

thehabhater said:
I disagree about Lemaire. He was Uber important on the 70’s cups.
Click to expand...

Okay...rank him compared to:

Dryden (top 5 goalie of all time)

3 Hall of Fame defencemen
Robinson - top 5 all time by most accounts
Lapointe - What...top 5 defender of his era?
Savard - Kevin Lowe Effect, but still good.

3 other HOF forwards
Lafleur - Don't be silly
Cornoyer - Don't be silly part 2
Shutt - the one people love to exclude, but dude almost averaged 50 goals a year over this period of Habs dominance.

and the other HOF defensive specialist
Gainey, who won the selke the first two years it existed, which overlapped with this Habs era.

Fuck, they had another elite defensive C as well at the time, Doug Jarvis.

and then yeah, Gainey took over a lot of the heavy lifting in the middle of that run of cups in the late 70's.

He's 4th most important at absolute best here with both Lapointe & Cornoyer probably having something to say about that. Arguably the 6th-7th most important player on those teams.
 
Habsy said:
You're being punitive to Lemaire on no fault of his own though.
Click to expand...

This is how legacy works though. The Guy > A Guy.


Habsy said:
I think the same of Keon. Real real good but there were better.
Click to expand...

and that's cool and all, but Keon was the guy on 4 cup winners, not a guy behind the guy. Keon as the guy beat the best centre in Habs history head to head more than he lost. I think you're getting too caught up on counting stats that are across eras despite being relatively close in calendar years. Keon was a motherfucker to beat head to head and was the guy for a small d dynasty team. He was our Beliveau with the jewelry to back it up.
 
MindzEye said:
Okay...rank him compared to:

Dryden (top 5 goalie of all time)

3 Hall of Fame defencemen
Robinson - top 5 all time by most accounts
Lapointe - What...top 5 defender of his era?
Savard - Kevin Lowe Effect, but still good.

3 other HOF forwards
Lafleur - Don't be silly
Cornoyer - Don't be silly part 2
Shutt - the one people love to exclude, but dude almost averaged 50 goals a year over this period of Habs dominance.

and the other HOF defensive specialist
Gainey, who won the selke the first two years it existed, which overlapped with this Habs era.

Fuck, they had another elite defensive C as well at the time, Doug Jarvis.

and then yeah, Gainey took over a lot of the heavy lifting in the middle of that run of cups in the late 70's.

He's 4th most important at absolute best here with both Lapointe & Cornoyer probably having something to say about that. Arguably the 6th-7th most important player on those teams.
Click to expand...
Lemaire was better and more important than Cornoyer. Also scored more.

I know what you're saying but none of that detracts from what was a quite complete player.

As for Shutt, he was my favorite as a teen. Everyone was Lafleur and i just like Shutt so it was 22 on my sweater. You're right though, grossly ignored. Worse than Lemaire.
 
Keon was the key guy for the Leafs in the 60’s. It doesn’t matter how good he would have been on another team. He was a Leaf, and a damn good one.

The big M was no slouch either.
 
My argument has been and remains that Keon is the best Leaf of all time and the best 2 way player that they ever had. The comparison with other players on other teams is noise.

if Beliveau had been a Leaf, they would have named suburbs after him.
 
thehabhater said:
My argument has been and remains that Keon is the best Leaf of all time and the best 2 way player that they ever had. The comparison with other players on other teams is noise.
Click to expand...
So you maintain that Keon is superior to Matthews currently?
 
thehabhater said:
As a two way player yes. But, Matthews story is far from complete. If he reups, he will be the greatest Leaf of all time.

winning a cup would be nice too
Click to expand...
But aren't you doing the same thing MindzEye was with Lemaire? You're giving demerits to Matthews for things that aren't his fault. He's not playing PK because he's incapable, you realize this right?
 
Habsy said:
But aren't you doing the same thing MindzEye was with Lemaire? You're giving demerits to Matthews for things that aren't his fault. He's not playing PK because he's incapable, you realize this right?
Click to expand...
How many good playoff series has Matthews had?

How many good playoff games has he had?

Now, regular season ,he has been aces
 
thehabhater said:
He went missing in the key game 6 and 7 when the opponent was on the ropes.
Click to expand...
Habsy said:
If your measuring stick to Keon is a cup then nobody will stack up for you.
Click to expand...
Not true! Sundin and Sittler never won cups and they were better in the playoffs than Matthews. And Sittler played against the eventual cup champions

Matthews is due to go on a major tear. Let’s hope it happens in April.
 
thehabhater said:
Not true! Sundin and Sittler never won cups and they were better in the playoffs than Matthews
Click to expand...
Look, it's hard to sit here and defend the playoff numbers so I won't. Having seen many of those playoff games myself, granted not all, there are legitimate reasons he's down. Now if you want to say he needs to fight through wearing two players while getting hooked and no call well that's your right. All I'm saying is with the use of a little critical thinking, maybe you can see that his talent level is light years above Keon. Maybe he needs to mature a bit more, who knows, it's just really unfair to discount him the way you are based solely on playoff production.
 
Habsy said:
Look, it's hard to sit here and defend the playoff numbers so I won't. Having seen many of those playoff games myself, granted not all, there are legitimate reasons he's down. Now if you want to say he needs to fight through wearing two players while getting hooked and no call well that's your right. All I'm saying is with the use of a little critical thinking, maybe you can see that his talent level is light years above Keon. Maybe he needs to mature a bit more, who knows, it's just really unfair to discount him the way you are based solely on playoff production.
Click to expand...
But daddy, I want him to play better. I want him to be the greatest Leaf of all time.

Offensively he is light years better than Keon. But factor in Keon’s defense compared to Mathews and it isn’t eve close. Keon was stellar on both side of the puck and Mathews is lagging defensively.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top