• Moderators, please send me a PM if you are unable to access mod permissions. Thanks, Habsy.

Laine v Matthews

MindzEye said:
You've said this twice now. It was as wrong the first time, as it is the second time with the difference being that it's been explained to you once already. They're basically equivalent in quality. Feel free to hit hockeyDB and roster gaze for a bit if you want.



17 yr old 1.93 ppg in the USNDTP is less impressive than .72ppg in Liiga?
Click to expand...

decent attempts to quantify the difference:

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2...sweden-shl-finland-liiga-czech-germany-norway

https://www.championshockeyleague.n...gue-stats-liiga-edges-out-shl-in-the-end/523/

https://www.championshockeyleague.net/news/chl-stats-league-vs-league/395/
 
I also find it weird that Zeke doesn't value the WJC much but he's going apeshit over a small sample size playoff run from Laine which he wasn't even ppg.
 
Laine is going to be a solid addition to the Jets and considering the city has a history with another Finnish legend is pretty cool. But anyone whose suggesting Laine be picked ahead of Matthews has lost it.
 
leafman101 said:
Short answer, yes. Way more impressive. Matthews was almost as good at 18 as some of the best hockey players in the world in their early 20's in the NLA. He was the best player in the NLA this year. Barkov was a top 10 scorer. And Barkov is ****ing awesome. I'd take him over Laine too.
Click to expand...

now you're starting to load in exaggerations. matthews was 4th in ppg with many fewer games played. Bouchard was far more productive and won the mvp.

and you can't compare matthews scoring vs regular swiss league players to nhlers playing against each other in a lockout year.

in fact that makes Barkov's season even more impressive as he was putting up those numbers against locked out nhlers.

I've already shown nylander's 18yr old stats as very comparable to matthews - and imo that's not the stuff a no brainer 1st overall pick is made of.
 
Last edited:
zeke said:
now you're starting to load in exaggerations. matthews was 4th in ppg with many fewer games played. Bouchard was far more productive and won the mvp.

and you can't compare matthews scoring vs regular swiss league players to nhlers playing against each other in a lockout year.

in fact that makes Barkov's season even more impressive as he was putting up those numbers against locked out nhlers.
Click to expand...

Matthews was 2nd in ppg for anyone that played over 11 games, and was on pace to finish with 5 less points than Bouchard. He led the league in goals per game by a ton, and by every report was the most dominant player in the NLA. Those aren't my words.

And of course you can compare his production to other players who played in the same league. its not like the NLA was filled with NHLers (although it had much higher quality than Liiga that is for sure. The best NHLer to go there was Turris). You are stretching here to try and rationalize and discount actual production, which is very un-zeke.

Going strictly by statistics Matthews has a more impressive resume than Laine. Literally every single one you can fine. And its not really close. So if you are impressed with Laine...
 
So Kessel and Kane had 40gm usndp seasons while matthews had 60 - who were those extra 20 games against?
 
all due respect but i've never taken euro or US junior stats at face value. it's foolish to, imo.
 
Its foolish not to do that IMO. Especially the US junior stats. Thats exactly how players like Dylan Larkin and Kyle Connor fall in the draft.

And especially with such large sample sizes. Matthews has been the best player in every league he has played in, every year. In multiple leagues, in multiple countries. Statistically speaking.
 
zeke said:
now you're starting to load in exaggerations. matthews was 4th in ppg with many fewer games played. Bouchard was far more productive and won the mvp.

and you can't compare matthews scoring vs regular swiss league players to nhlers playing against each other in a lockout year.

in fact that makes Barkov's season even more impressive as he was putting up those numbers against locked out nhlers.

I've already shown nylander's 18yr old stats as very comparable to matthews - and imo that's not the stuff a no brainer 1st overall pick is made of.
Click to expand...
That's not really an accurate way of looking at it. It's not like the Swiss league was inundated with NHLers during the lockout.

Only about nine or ten NHLers of any note played in the Swiss league during the lockout (ignoring a handful who only played less than ten games), so it's not like the level of competition they generally faced in a day-in-day-out, shift-by-shift basis was different in any dramatic way from what they'd see in a normal, non-NHL lockout year in the Swiss league.

It's also not accurate to say Barkov put up his numbers against locked-out NHLers. There weren't too many locked-out NHLers at all that went to play in the Finnish league.
 
literally the only apples to apples comps we have, unfortunately:

WJC20 at age 17

Matthews: 5gms, 1gls, 3pts
Laine: 7gms, 7gls, 13pts

WJC18 at 16

Matthews: 7gms, 5gls, 7pts
Laine: 7gms, 8gls, 11pts

but of course, those aren't useful samples either.
 
zeke said:
So Kessel and Kane had 40gm usndp seasons while matthews had 60 - who were those extra 20 games against?
Click to expand...

Their international schedule was quite a bit lighter then.

If you want to compare like vs like, look as the NAHL/USHL scoring

Kane: 2.26 ppg
Matthews: 2 ppg
Kessel: 1.79 ppg

With the USHL being a better, deeper league when Matthews was there than when Kessel was there in the NAHL days.
 
zeke said:
Larkin is a reason to ignore USDP stats actually as his weren't even notable.
Click to expand...

Is he? He put up a good 19 yr old season, but call me when he reaches scoring totals that out perform his USNDTP/NCAA numbers before we go saying this.

The thing to remember is that Larkin was stuck behind Eichel, so he didn't get prime minutes and opportunity.
 
zeke said:
the top 25 ppg guys in finland in 12-13 were almost all locked out nhlers.
Click to expand...
No, not really:

nTwb5Nq.jpg


EDyOHVA.jpg


NIcIcDs.jpg


The top four guys are locked-out NHLers, but I only see 12 NHLers in the top-30.

And a bunch of those guys only played around ten games.
 
MindzEye said:
Their international schedule was quite a bit lighter then.

If you want to compare like vs like, look as the NAHL/USHL scoring

Kane: 2.26 ppg
Matthews: 2 ppg
Kessel: 1.79 ppg

With the USHL being a better, deeper league when Matthews was there than when Kessel was there in the NAHL days.
Click to expand...

now that is more interesting. thank you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top