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Leaf Rumours

zeke said:
close. very close.


unfortunately, Kabby doesn't waive to go to florida, I don't think.
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I think he might. He gets to live on the beach, and gets reunited with his old buddy Bryan McCabe.

That being said, I wouldn't trade Kaberle for Horton...or anything else in the Florida Panthers organization.
 
leafman101 said:
Tucker would have been done this year too.
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nah -- next year.

the real issue is, however, that if burke was able to find a suitor for jason blake.. i'm sure they could have found a home for darcy tucker.

buying him out was really ****ing stupid. ****, even if they just waited a year and bought him out then he'd only count as deadweight for 4 years instead of 6.

it was a stupidly premature decision.

he wasn't even coming off of THAT awful of a season. he still scored 18 goals.
 
I wouldn't give up Kabs for Horton either. I wouldn't mind having him on the Leafs but not at that price.

Yeah, the Tucker buyout was dumb. There was a bit too many knee jerk attempts to unload the old team. This wasn't just Fletcher - Burke's dumping of Antropov and Kubina were in a similar league. Both those guys should have either netted more in the trades or been held onto. They weren't exactly liabilities.
 
The whole "Change The Culture" idea of Fletcher's was ****ing stupid. Of course buying-out Tucker was dumb. 6 freaking years against the cap? The guy didn't play THAt bad his last season. Why not keep him another year or two and see if there's any suitors? If not, at least the buyout is less years.
 
Burke's handling of Antropov and Kubina's not even comparable to how stupid it was to dump Tucker.

Burke's mistake on Antropov was 1. not re-signing him and 2. not replacing him. But Antropov was a pending UFA and if the 2nd rounder was the best he could do then he still gotta unload him before the trade deadline.

In Kubina's case, he was just in a rush to unload his contract so he could sign Komisarek and Beauchemin. Sure he gave Kubina away for nothing, but I can understand if you don't think of it as a Kubina for Exelby trade, but a Kubina for Komisarek swap instead.

Neither Antropov nor Kubina has a lasting effect on cap hit, while Tucker's buyout would haunt the Leafs for 6 yrs ... thus they're not even comparable.

In hindsight, Fletcher's many bad decisions over such a short tenure were almost as damaging to JFJ's bad moves over a much longer period of time.
 
I think buyouts are almost always stupid.

But, in the case of a rebuilding team that doesn't plan on contending immediately, they move from "stupid" to "absolutely assinine".

The only time a buyout ever makes sense is if you're a contender and you absolutely need that last bit of capspace to improve your team that season - in that case, it's worth the longterm pain.

But when you're rebuilding, it makes no sense whatsoever.

Quite the opposite, in fact - a rebuilding team should, like Burke keeps saying, take advantage of the fact that they can waste capsapce on bad players in exchange for draft picks, because they don't need that capsapce immediately.


Such a dumb, dumb move.

and of course, the real kicker is that he went out and immediatel spent that capsapce on Finger.

So instead of spending $3.0 on Tucker for 3yrs, we decided to spend $4.5 mil on Finger for 4yrs, plus another couple mil after that.

just horrible.
 
The Tucker buyout was stupid. Weren't there a lot of people calling for it on this board at the time, though? I could be wrong, but I think there were some that supported that move.

I like Horton, but wouldn't move Kaberle for him. Isn't that article saying he's not available though? Or does "Nate" refer to somebody else?

I do know Booth is not and Sexton said Vokoun won't be moved this season. Nate and Weiss likely aren't available, and neither is Kulikov or Frolik.
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This from some crackhead Vancouver writer, who says he hears a deal is in place:

To Vancouver:

Kaberle and Ponikarovsky

To Toronto:

Bieksa, Bernier, C. Schneider and a pick (not sure what round... a 3rd?)
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Uh, ****ing ridiculously stupid proposal?

Yesterday I mentioned a rumour passed on to me about Kaberle and a deal being in place. There was lots of good discussion about the pros and cons of this deal from Toronto's view and Vancouver's. I now present my view with help from the source.

Mike Augello had a great bit in his last blog about "The Monster" and how his game is not resembling that of last year. Put this into perspective with what I wrote yesterday.

Burke has his goalie in JS Giguerre now and next season as well but after that the cupboard is bare. Gustavsson is an RFA and will probably have some bargaining power for more money but clearly Burke has seen the problems with allocating so much money to two goalies- IMO this is not going to happen again.

IF this deal is close to true I feel Burke will want to get Corey Schneider. It makes a lot of sense for Toronto. Giguerre can start and Schneider can be on the bench learning from the Stanley Cup Champion. It's a huge reduction in expense for the Leafs and it makes sense from a player development point of view- a young top flight prospect where none currently exist.

Burke knows this team will not make the post season. He knows that all he can play for now is to get the team away from the lottery picks- if that is motivation for the players then there are way bigger issues in the centre of hockey's universe. However, Burke does not need Tomas Kaberle anymore. Toronto doesn't need anymore defense either but that reality does not mean he wouldn't consider taking one back for 'cap reasons'.

If Kaberle is to be coming out west I believe it's certain that Kevin Bieksa is going back as the cap room is needed. Despite being injured Kevin is still some one a few teams will have interest in-he can be moved later. Can you imagine a more pissed off looking pairing than Bieksa and Phaneuf? It would also be a pairing prone to give aways but tough nonetheless.

I would take the deal a step further and add Ponikarovsky in too. It's no secret he is available and but once again there is a cap issue with Vancouver so Steve Bernier goes back signed for another year at 2 million and more affordable for Burke next season.

All this is mainly theory as Kaberle has to want to go to the Canucks and if he doesn't then flush it all away with every other rumour we read here that never happens.
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http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Peter-Tessier/Game-Day-and-trade-deadline-Part-II/119/26165
 
The Canucks don't have the talent pool to make a proper offer for Kaberle or Ponikarovsky. They're incredibly thin prospect-wise.
 
IF this deal is close to true I feel Burke will want to get Corey Schneider. It makes a lot of sense for Toronto. Giguerre can start and Schneider can be on the bench learning from the Stanley Cup Champion. It's a huge reduction in expense for the Leafs and it makes sense from a player development point of view- a young top flight prospect where none currently exist.
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hilarious.

first.. Giguere is spelled incorrectly throughout. Anyways, that's just nitpicking.

Outside of that, as far as Schneider being a top flight goaltending prospect -- in my mind he's in the same boat as Gustavsson. The luster is off both of them. Schneider is a soon-to-be 24 year old who was just beaten out for an NHL job by Andrew Raycroft. since that time he has returned to the AHL where his numbers are less than stellar (and a big step down from where they were last year).

In Gustavsson, the Leafs have a player who is just a year and a half older than Schneider and who has looked at least competent in the NHL, something Schneider is yet to do.

given that there is only 18 months separating the two of them, and they have both had equally disappointing seasons, and both have similar upsides -- if Schneider is a good young goaltender then so is Gus.

So as far as the goaltenders are concerned this trade doesn't really make sense for the Leafs, unless they are convinced that Gus will never be an NHL tender. Which if we are to take Allaire, Wilson and Burke at their word isn't the case. They have all spoken optimistically about Gustavsson and his progress this year. Not that they shouldn't be looking to shore up the goaltending position, but in my mind swapping Gustavsson for Schneider is a wash at this point.

The 'huge reduction in expenses' comment is the best, though.

Gustavsson's base salary for 09-10 is $850k. Schneider's is $1.084mn. More importantly, both are restricted free agents at the end of the year. In short, there are no savings there. And I doubt that Gustavsson will demand more money, as an RFA, than Schneider.

Next you have Kaberle vs. Bieksa. Kaberle's cap hit is $4.25mn and is signed through 2010-11. Bieksa's is $3.75mn and is also signed through 2010-11. In July 2011 both will be unrestricted free agents.

Finally, Ponikarovsky vs. Bernier. Both have a cap hit of $2mn. Bernier is signed through next season, Ponikarovsky is an unrestricted free agent.

cap 'savings' for 2010-11, assuming Schneider and Gus both sign qualifying offers.

Kaberle ($4.25) + Gus ($0.94) = $5.19

Bieksa ($3.75) + Bernier ($2) + Schneider ($1.19) =$6.94

some savings.

no upgrade. the only thing you do is replace Ponikarovsky.. with a guy who is earning $2mn and has never eclipsed 40 points.

You could easily find a comparable 30 point player (to Bernier) in the $1.5-$2 range. So again.. no savings.

no thanks.
 
Bieksa is overpaid shit.

Bernier is overpaid shit.

Schneider is good....BUT:


C.Schneider: 6'2", 195lbs, 23yrs, #26 '04
J.Gustavsson: 6'3", 192lbs, 24yrs, undrafted
J.Reimer: 6'2", 208lbs, 21yrs, #99 '06


Age 24

J.Gustavsson: NHL: 32gms, .898sv%
C.Schneider: ?????
J.Reimer: ?????

Age 23

J.Gustavsson:NHL: 0gms, .000sv% SEL: 42gms, ..932sv%
C.Schneider: NHL: 2gms, .920sv% AHL: 37gms, .909sv%
J.Reimer: ?????

Age 22

J.Gustavsson: NHL: 0gms, .000sv% SEL: 20gms, .919sv%
C.Schneider: NHL: 8gms, .877sv% AHL: 40gms, .928sv%
J.Reimer: ?????


Age 21

J.Gustavsson: S-1: 23gms, .908sv%
C.Schneider: AHL: 36gms, .916sv%
J.Reimer: AHL: 9gms, .925sv%

Age 20

J.Gustavsson: S-1: 6gms, .930sv%
C.Schneider: NCAA: 42gms, .925sv%
J.Reimer: ECHL: 28gms, .917sv%

Age 19

J.Gustavsson: S-1: 20gms, .928sv%
C.Schneider: NCAA: 37gms, .930sv%
J.Reimer: CHL: 30gms, .916sv%

Age 18

J.Gustavsson: SEL: 9gms, .894sv%
C.Schneider: NCAA: 18gms, .916sv%
J.Reimer: CHL: 60gms, .912sv%



If the canucks stepped up and offered both Hodgson and Schneider for just kaberle, I'd listen....but probably still wouldn't make that trade.
 
I really don't know what the Canucks are doing with Schneider, I can't help but feel they are killing his development.
 
Hodgson is literally the most overrated prospect I've ever seen. And with his incredibly invasive back problems he's probably got a future as a plug ahead of him (hence the McCauley comparisons).
 
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