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Leaf Rumours

That'd be a pretty massive return for two UFAs.

Kunitz, 1st, 3rd, Tangradi for Poni and Stemp?

Can't believe that would ever come close to happening.

It's assuming negative value on Kunitz, and the Pens paying a premium for us taking the 2 yrs remaining (after this one) of his 3.75 million dollar deal. A contract they only took on to rid themselves of Whitney's albatross.

If you were to look at it another way:

Stemp - 3rd
Poni - 2nd + Tangradi

all of a sudden it looks about right....but Pittsburgh doesn't have the capspace to fit both in, and would apparently also like to add Hamhuis. Kunitz is the most logical piece for them to move, especially considering that if they like Poni, they can probably sign him for less than that to stay and play on Malkin's wing. But there's no way we eat that contract as part of the deal without compensation...bumping the 2nd in the Poni portion of the deal to a 1st would then make sense.

It all depends on whether or not you put value in Kunitz, a player on a ~50 pt pace making 3.75 million dollars until 2012
 
So you expect Kunitz a half decent (b level) prospect a 1st and a 3rd for Stemp and Poni??? Come on... Kunitz isn't a negative asset.

You'd be happy paying him 3.75 for the next 2 1/2 seasons? I see him as having negative value to a team trying to win now, with cap issues, and wanting to add another defender (that they can't afford)
 
I really doubt the Pens are really high on Stemp either. I see them maybe going after Poni though... there aren't a lot of decent wingers available.
 
yeah, none of that makes sense for pittsburgh.

1) stemp (2.5) + poni (2.05) = 4.55 cap hit, so it exceeds kunitz's. in short, they aren't clearing any cap space to afford hamhuis by doing that.

2) if they deal tangradi, kunitz and a first round pick in one trade then what the hell is left to deal for hamhuis?

i also don't think kunitz has negative value. this isn't even jason blake that we're talking about here and even he netted a return. there are injury concerns which hurt his value but his cap hit is fair considering what he brings to the table (50-60 points and some good, chippy, physical play). and at a relatively young 31 still has plenty of hockey ahead of him.

ultimately i see pittsburgh having a ton of interest in ponikarovsky. he's versatile, he's productive and he seems to fit in well alongside just about anybody. he can play on a checking unit with staal, or be used in a scoring role alongside crosby and malkin -- and you know he'll produce regardless of where he plays or who he plays with. he's responsible defensively, and he adds good size to the lineup.

stempniak, however? i don't think pittsburgh has much use for him. they already have a bunch of similar players (to varying degrees) in cooke, talbot, dupuis and kennedy -- smallish players who are fast, bring some physicality to the table and can chip in with a bit of offense. granted, stempniak is more skilled than those four, but enough to tie up $2.5mn worth of cap space in? probably not, if you're pittsburgh...
 
yeah, none of that makes sense for pittsburgh.

1) stemp (2.5) + poni (2.05) = 4.55 cap hit, so it exceeds kunitz's. in short, they aren't clearing any cap space to afford hamhuis by doing that.

2) if they deal tangradi, kunitz and a first round pick in one trade then what the hell is left to deal for hamhuis?

i also don't think kunitz has negative value. this isn't even jason blake that we're talking about here and even he netted a return. there are injury concerns which hurt his value but his cap hit is fair considering what he brings to the table (50-60 points and some good, chippy, physical play). and at a relatively young 31 still has plenty of hockey ahead of him.

ultimately i see pittsburgh having a ton of interest in ponikarovsky. he's versatile, he's productive and he seems to fit in well alongside just about anybody. he can play on a checking unit with staal, or be used in a scoring role alongside crosby and malkin -- and you know he'll produce regardless of where he plays or who he plays with. he's responsible defensively, and he adds good size to the lineup.

stempniak, however? i don't think pittsburgh has much use for him. they already have a bunch of similar players (to varying degrees) in cooke, talbot, dupuis and kennedy -- smallish players who are fast, bring some physicality to the table and can chip in with a bit of offense. granted, stempniak is more skilled than those four, but enough to tie up $2.5mn worth of cap space in? probably not, if you're pittsburgh...

This sounds about right to me.
 
yeah, none of that makes sense for pittsburgh.

1) stemp (2.5) + poni (2.05) = 4.55 cap hit, so it exceeds kunitz's. in short, they aren't clearing any cap space to afford hamhuis by doing that.

The issue is though, that Pittsburgh has a million in capspace (in total). Kunitz almost turns a Poni & Stemp package into a wash, with roughly 20 games remaining of that .8 million cost over run (.2 of that 1 million dollar buffer) and Hamhuis, at a 2 million dollar caphit, would take up about .5 of the remaining .8...it does work

2) if they deal tangradi, kunitz and a first round pick in one trade then what the hell is left to deal for hamhuis?

2011 picks, and prospects like Dustin Jeffrey, Veilleux, etc.

i also don't think kunitz has negative value. this isn't even jason blake that we're talking about here and even he netted a return. there are injury concerns which hurt his value but his cap hit is fair considering what he brings to the table (50-60 points and some good, chippy, physical play). and at a relatively young 31 still has plenty of hockey ahead of him.

That's possible...but at the same time, he's 31 with 2 more years that he's somewhat overpaid for, on a team with depth issues that could potentially move him for the cost of upgrading a pick, and bring in 3 bodies for a playoff run at the cost of 1 body to their roster.

ultimately i see pittsburgh having a ton of interest in ponikarovsky. he's versatile, he's productive and he seems to fit in well alongside just about anybody. he can play on a checking unit with staal, or be used in a scoring role alongside crosby and malkin -- and you know he'll produce regardless of where he plays or who he plays with. he's responsible defensively, and he adds good size to the lineup.

People here have been talking about how much that makes sense long before it started hitting the rumour mill and I agree

stempniak, however? i don't think pittsburgh has much use for him. they already have a bunch of similar players (to varying degrees) in cooke, talbot, dupuis and kennedy -- smallish players who are fast, bring some physicality to the table and can chip in with a bit of offense. granted, stempniak is more skilled than those four, but enough to tie up $2.5mn worth of cap space in? probably not, if you're pittsburgh...

Stemp really only takes up .625 or so down the stretch, and as you noted, would be an offensive upgrade on those guys you just named and would be a bit more of a suitable linemate for the big Pittsburgh 3 down the middle.

Do I think they covet him? No...but do I think they'd be willing to take him on as a decent 2nd-3rd line depth guy who is an upgrade over a bunch of the guys they're running out there now...yeah.
 
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The issue is though, that Pittsburgh has a million in capspace (in total). Kunitz almost turns a Poni & Stemp package into a wash, with roughly 20 games remaining of that .8 million cost over run (.2 of that 1 million dollar buffer) and Hamhuis, at a 2 million dollar caphit, would take up about .5 of the remaining .8...it does work

again, though -- if we are to believe the pundits (and yeah, sometimes their math is shoddy) pittsburgh is looking to shed salary in order to accommodate hamhuis. this might not even be a cap issue, but could even relate to an internal budget. we don't know.

still, i think it's unlikely to see pittsburgh deal kunitz in a deal that actually adds to their salary cap. especially in a deal that doesn't really make them better since stempniak is below average and ponikarovsky and kunitz, when both healthy, represent a wash.


2011 picks, and prospects like Dustin Jeffrey, Veilleux, etc.

i very highly doubt that pittsburgh is going to shed their system of basically every single one of their (near) nhl-ready prospects, and especially not for a bunch of pending unrestricted free agents. that will really hurt them next season.

and as far as picks are concerned, i doubt very much that nashville would be interested in a second round pick in 2011 in exchange for hamhuis. if they're looking to deal him at the deadline then there will certainly be a range of options involving 2010 second round picks.

so to get a deal done involving a 2011 pick pittsburgh would likely have to table their 2011 first. which they won't do if they're dealing their 2010 first in another trade.


That's possible...but at the same time, he's 31 with 2 more years that he's somewhat overpaid for, on a team with depth issues that could potentially move him for the cost of upgrading a pick, and bring in 3 bodies for a playoff run at the cost of 1 body to their roster.

kunitz isn't overpaid at all. on a relative level he's maknig what he should be making. in my opinion he is a bad player to invest that sort of money in to, but he is earning fair market value.

in any event, i think that pittsburgh could probably deal kunitz with a 2nd or 3rd rounder for a pending ufa like ponikarovsky. he shoulnd't cost them a first round pick to ship out. and he won't.


Stemp really only takes up .625 or so down the stretch, and as you noted, would be an offensive upgrade on those guys you just named and would be a bit more of a suitable linemate for the big Pittsburgh 3 down the middle.

Do I think they covet him? No...but do I think they'd be willing to take him on as a decent 2nd-3rd line depth guy who is an upgrade over a bunch of the guys they're running out there now...yeah.

the thing is, i don't think that stempniak is more suited to playing with crosby or malkin than what the pens currently have. i also don't think he's much fo an upgrade. offensively, sure, but then wer'e talking about 25-35 point scorers vs. a 35-40 point scorer. in short, he doesn't represent a huge offensive upgrade and when all around games are taken into account, not much of an upgrade at all. he'd just be taking up money that could be better spent on a better forward.

as for how he would fit in -- he isn't nearly deferential enough with the puck to be useful with guys who need the puck to maximize their effectiveness. he's a puck hog, and i don't think that meshes well with any of pittsburgh's centres.

pittsburgh lacks depth on the wings but with those three centres has three competent lines, each featuring a good catalyst for that line. stempniak is a better fit on teams like the rangers or buffalo, which lack offensive catalysts on their third lines.
 
The Pittsburgh Penguins are looking at several options on the trade market, but as far as wingers go, they may be down to four finalists: Lee Stempniak, Alexei Ponikarovsky, Raffi Torres and Ray Whitney.

The Pens will likely pass on Whitney because of the high asking price -- a first-rounder and a prospect. So that leaves the other three, all of whom make between $2 and $2.5 million a season -- a low enough cap hit for the Pens to absorb.

As the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette points out, "With their current 22-man roster, the Penguins have about $1 million in salary-cap space, but cap hits are pro-rated and only about a quarter of the season remains."

So that's partly why no deal was struck before the Olympic deadline. But we also know they're looking at Dan Hamhuis, as well, so we'll see how busy the Pens get in the next few weeks.

nice to finally hear Stempniak's name in these trade talks - getting Poni AND Stemp makes oodles of sense for the Pens, and I've been thinking that they've had to be talking about Stemp as well whenever discussing Poni.

If it's just Poni and Stemp for good picks and prospects I wouldn't be surprised.

Of course, I'm still holding out hope for the mega deal:

To PIT: Poni, Stemp, Grabo, Kulemin + ?
To TOR: Staal, Kunitz + ?
 
nice to finally hear Stempniak's name in these trade talks - getting Poni AND Stemp makes oodles of sense for the Pens, and I've been thinking that they've had to be talking about Stemp as well whenever discussing Poni.

If it's just Poni and Stemp for good picks and prospects I wouldn't be surprised.

Of course, I'm still holding out hope for the mega deal:

To PIT: Poni, Stemp, Grabo, Kulemin + ?
To TOR: Staal, Kunitz + ?

Come on man... seriously? There is no way in hell you get Staal for a pile of garbage. At least ME's suggestion had a glimmer of reality to it.

How about Kaberle, Stempniak and Poni
for
Staal and Kunitz.
 
The Leafs ended up getting Phaneuf for a pile of garbage so everything is relative. The CPU won't even allow me to make that trade in NHL 10 for God's sake.
 
The Leafs ended up getting Phaneuf for a pile of garbage so everything is relative. The CPU won't even allow me to make that trade in NHL 10 for God's sake.

Calgary and Pittsburgh are in different situations though. The Flames were looking to shed a big contract while adding some depth.

That pile of garbage zeke suggested not only doesn't add anything outside of maybe Poni that the Pens need, but it takes away a very good player how is very young and signed to an excellent contract.

Too many people underrate Staal because of his numbers. The fact is that he does his job extremely well. He hasn't been put in a scoring role, he's in a checking role and he excels at it.
 
Making that trade would make the Pens a significantly better team for the rest of this season.
 
Too many people underrate Staal because of his numbers. The fact is that he does his job extremely well. He hasn't been put in a scoring role, he's in a checking role and he excels at it.

I really dislike this argument....There are numerous examples of centres who play against top opposition, and post strong numbers. Kesler, Richards, Antropov, Zajac, Datsyuk...and quite a few more.

Staal is young, and there definitely seems to be the potential for more offence out of him, but the fact of the matter is that he plays 19mpg and is a ~50pt centre.

He's 28th among centremen in shots on goal...so he can't be playing a purely defensive role. He shoots more than Stastny, Getzlaf, Horton, Sedin....so he's gotta be spending a reasonable amount of time in the offensive zone.

I'm willing to accept that some of it is due to linemates,...but he's definitely given enough ice time to produce more than he does.
 
I agree that you'd have to throw Kulemin in there, but I think he is a keeper to build around.

He needs to be part of the Kadri Kessel, Phaneuf, Schenn, Bozak rebuild. He is that first round pick type of player that is starting to bloom

Kaberle would be the piece that would make Pitts interested. (to replace Gonchar if they have to )

PS... anyone think that Kaberle could be used to bring Jagr and Cervenko ?? I wonder what they are like on the Czech team together??

Then what about Schenn, Exelby, Poni and Stemp for Staal Kunitz and a 2nd

Apparantley the Pens want a physical D man for the playoffs XLB can provide some minutes.. they get an inexpensive building block in Schenn and Poni and Stemp for their forward depth.

Then Jagr and Cervenko come in in the off season with Kaberle staying.

doubtful but still fun to dream

Jagr Bozak Kessel
Kulemin Kadri Stalberg/Hanson
Cervenko Sjostrom Mitchell
Orr Rosehill Marlie
 
Andy Strickland

People close to Toronto Maple Leafs D-man Tomas Kaberle tell me he’s privately indicated he’s ready to waive his no-trade and move on from Toronto. He continues to only want to stay in the Eastern Conference. Will that change?
 
Kabs...

To Philly for JVR
To Boston for Leafs #1
To Washington for Semin
To Pittsburgh for Staal
To Buffalo for Vanek
To Florida for Horton

If this isn't what teams want to offer, everyone can go **** themselves.

I don't want any B prospects and late 1st rounders. Just keep him if that's the case.
 
I like the idea of getting our 1st back this summer for Kabs from the B's. Although we'll probably have to take a salary in return(maybe Wideman?) I also like the idea of trading for Semin. He only signed a 1-year extension there and might be gettable.
 
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