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Leaf Rumours

leafman101 said:
Same reason Clarkson won't get them here either. JVR, Kessel and Lupul.
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So there are only 3 wingers on 2 PP units?

Look, Kulemin had 2 back to back 7G seasons following his 30G season (albeit the 2nd one was over 48GP). To pretend he's an up and coming top 6 is flat out lying to yourself. He was a disappointment, that's why Nonis had to go out and sign an UFA. That's why he's rumoured to be on the trading block, and there's every chance the Leafs will not bring him back after this season. I actually LIKE Kulemin, but he was given the chance to play on a top 6 role over the past 2 seasons, and he could not deliver. He may still emerge to be a top 6 winger, but he hasn't been.
 
No one is pretending Kuly is a top 6 winger. He's not. And neither is Clarkson. People are just pretending Clarkson is, and that is flat out lying to yourself.

And yeah, those 3 wingers are why Clarkson will never get the top line PP minutes he got in Jersey here.
 
number17 said:
So there are only 3 wingers on 2 PP units?

Look, Kulemin had 2 back to back 7G seasons following his 30G season (albeit the 2nd one was over 48GP). To pretend he's an up and coming top 6 is flat out lying to yourself. He was a disappointment, that's why Nonis had to go out and sign an UFA. That's why he's rumoured to be on the trading block, and there's every chance the Leafs will not bring him back after this season. I actually LIKE Kulemin, but he was given the chance to play on a top 6 role over the past 2 seasons, and he could not deliver. He may still emerge to be a top 6 winger, but he hasn't been.
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chance to play half season with Jay McSelke in center? play shutdown role every game? I think Randy wants him to do what he says and scoring goals is optional.
 
Last 3 years:
Clarkson 167 gp, 49 gls, 80 pts (82 gp, 24 gls, 39 pts)
Kulemin 166 gp, 22 gls, 69 pts (82 gp, 11 gls, 34 pts)

PP TOI
Clarkson 467:17 (2:48/g)
Kulemin 84:11 (0:30/g)


So if you give Clarkson first line PP minutes he can score 5 more points than Kuly. Of course when Kuly got those minutes he was a 60 point guy.
 
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Wait, are people actually trying to argue anything other than Kulemin >>>> Clarkson?

I would love to see any sort of statistics that can support this. And that's ignoring their salaries.
 
leafman101 said:
No one is pretending Kuly is a top 6 winger. He's not. And neither is Clarkson. People are just pretending Clarkson is, and that is flat out lying to yourself.

And yeah, those 3 wingers are why Clarkson will never get the top line PP minutes he got in Jersey here.
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Yeah, this. Kuly's a solid third line winger that fluked out a 30 goal season a few years ago, and it's pretty unlikely that he'll ever repeat that effort. David Clarkson is also a third line winger that fluked out a 30-goal season he's unlikely to ever repeat a few years ago, and he just happens to be worse than Kulemin at pretty much every facet of the game.

I'm pretty baffled at where number17 got the idea that people were suggesting that Kuly's "an up and coming top-6 winger".
 
leafman101 said:
No one is pretending Kuly is a top 6 winger. He's not. And neither is Clarkson. People are just pretending Clarkson is, and that is flat out lying to yourself.

And yeah, those 3 wingers are why Clarkson will never get the top line PP minutes he got in Jersey here.
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Thank you. That's all I wanted to say. Kulemin is NOT a top 6 winger, and that's why Nonis went out to sign Clarkson.

You can argue Clarkson is not that top 6 winger neither. He sure hasn't been. And he may not be. If he can be a 20-25G, 50ish points winger who plays strong along the board, has strong puck possession and is a beast in front of the net especially in the playoff, then he justifies the signing IMO. Can he get there? We don't know, we'll have to see

But my point is Kulemin has played himself out of the top 6 role after the 10/11 season and there's every reason for Nonis to go out and sign an UFA. I am not as pessimistic about Clarkson's future in TO as you are, but I sure agree he has not even come close to fulfilling his expectation thus far.
 
number17 said:
Thank you. That's all I wanted to say. Kulemin is NOT a top 6 winger, and that's why Nonis went out to sign Clarkson.

You can argue Clarkson is not that top 6 winger neither. He sure hasn't been. And he may not be. If he can be a 20-25G, 50ish points winger who plays strong along the board, has strong puck possession and is a beast in front of the net especially in the playoff, then he justifies the signing IMO. Can he get there? We don't know, we'll have to see

But my point is Kulemin has played himself out of the top 6 role after the 10/11 season and there's every reason for Nonis to go out and sign an UFA. I am not as pessimistic about Clarkson's future in TO as you are, but I sure agree he has not even come close to fulfilling his expectation thus far.
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problem is that Clarkson is not top 6 and never was or will
 
number17 said:
If he can be a 20-25G, 50ish points winger who plays strong along the board, has strong puck possession and is a beast in front of the net especially in the playoff, then he justifies the signing IMO. Can he get there? We don't know, we'll have to see
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Jesus ****ing Christ dude. Yeah, and if Rickard Wallin or Johnny Pohl could be 20-25 goal/50 point wingers, they'd be great signings too. But like David Clarkson, there no ****ing chance whatsoever that it happens.

I mean, come on. The guy's pushing 30, and he's had one season where he even got 40 points, and one season where he got past the 20 goal mark---and it was the same season. His one, fluky 30 goal/46 point season.

If you premise is that a player could be a good signing if they spend the duration of their contract hitting or breaking the career highs in goals and points, then every single hockey player on the planet is potentially a good signing.
 
number17 said:
Thank you. That's all I wanted to say. Kulemin is NOT a top 6 winger, and that's why Nonis went out to sign Clarkson.

You can argue Clarkson is not that top 6 winger neither. He sure hasn't been. And he may not be. If he can be a 20-25G, 50ish points winger who plays strong along the board, has strong puck possession and is a beast in front of the net especially in the playoff, then he justifies the signing IMO. Can he get there? We don't know, we'll have to see

But my point is Kulemin has played himself out of the top 6 role after the 10/11 season and there's every reason for Nonis to go out and sign an UFA. I am not as pessimistic about Clarkson's future in TO as you are, but I sure agree he has not even come close to fulfilling his expectation thus far.
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Is there a single iota of evidence that supports this as being even a remote possibility?
 
Whenever the start of your argument essentially boils down to:

"If David Clarkson could just start to annually do something he's never done before in his whole life..."

...then I think it's time to pause, reflect and come up with a different argument.
 
I get all the hatred for Clarkson.

But to say a guy who's coming off a 30G and a 25G pace season has no chance of being a 20-25G scorer?

C'mon.
 
C'mon what? We all see him play, if this guy wasn't earning $5.75 million, he would be on the 4th line. Bodie has been much better than Clarkson.
 
I still find it tough to really judge the guy in his first year with his boyhood team and having sat out the first 10 games with a suspension.

The playoffs is a new season for him, as far as I'm concerned.
 
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