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Leafs' Prospect/Marlies Discussion Thread!

Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Deckie007 said:
Pronman is huge on upside and hockey sense. He's been a high guy on Bracco for a while so not surprised he's on the list.
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yeah but for an all-offense prospect he simply doesn't produce enough for me.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

zeke said:
yeah but for an all-offense prospect he simply doesn't produce enough for me.
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Yeah, his production in his draft+1 season was nice, but not huge.

And then he fell right off the map in the second half of his draft+2 season, producing 10 goals & 37 points in 37 games after being traded to Windsor for their Memorial Cup run. If he'd come out guns blazing to start his AHL career, that would have reassured me somewhat, but as it is he seems like a pretty long shot to become any kind of useful contributor at the NHL level.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

What did Kapanen do to Babcock, to not be up on the team? Or? Heheh, NOT do? I mean all the kid does is fly on blades, check, score etc.... Seems to me, we could use some of that, and he is sorta big now, and uses it in the corners.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Iknowenuff said:
What did Kapanen do to Babcock, to not be up on the team? Or? Heheh, NOT do? I mean all the kid does is fly on blades, check, score etc.... Seems to me, we could use some of that, and he is sorta big now, and uses it in the corners.
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I think there have long been concerns with his consistency. I'm not sure if it has improved or still remains an issue.

That, and he is waiver exempt.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

LeafGm said:
Yeah, his production in his draft+1 season was nice, but not huge.

And then he fell right off the map in the second half of his draft+2 season, producing 10 goals & 37 points in 37 games after being traded to Windsor for their Memorial Cup run. If he'd come out guns blazing to start his AHL career, that would have reassured me somewhat, but as it is he seems like a pretty long shot to become any kind of useful contributor at the NHL level.
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Leafs are hiding kids in their strength and conditioning program before they hit the ice as pros. So it's hard to make much out of his production so far. I'm high on him. Hockey sense is huge to me and he's got it offensively. I think if paired with the right linemates, he'll produce.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

It's kindda interesting that according to Pronman, our top 3 prospects are Liljegren, Bracco and Kapanen.

Is Dermot not on the list because he's with the Leafs when he released the result (and hence not a 'prospect'?) ... I'd think Dermot is a better prospect than Bracco and even Kapanen, in terms of NHL potential and NHL readiness.

I also think Grundstrom is a lot more NHL-ready than Bracco but I guess if you're talking about ceiling, then Bracco is arguably higher. Though I'm VERY skeptical how likely he is to make the NHL, even when he's "playing better" as of late according to Pronman, he still doesn't put up the kind of AHL stats that you'd expect a top 6 offensive player would put up ... and numbers aside, having watched Bracco play in person for a few games, plus watching him play in the WJHC tournament ... he really doesn't catch your attention.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Kapanen's just caught in a numbers game. Babcock won't move Nylander to center, Leo Komarov is his favourite hockey player, he also loves Hyman & Brown, and Marleau, JVR & Marner obviously aren't coming out of the lineup. And then Babcock also thinks we need a face-puncher, and Matt Martin is better at punching faces than Kapanen.

So, even aside from being waiver-exempt unlike Leivo & Soshnikov, you'd rather he play in the AHL than watch Leaf games from the press box.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Deckie007 said:
Leafs are hiding kids in their strength and conditioning program before they hit the ice as pros. So it's hard to make much out of his production so far. I'm high on him. Hockey sense is huge to me and he's got it offensively. I think if paired with the right linemates, he'll produce.
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Yeah, considering all the off-ice work they've been doing with him, and the way they've eased him into AHL action, I don't really hold his AHL production against him. It's his lack of production in his last season of junior that concerns me, and that concern would have been lessened if he'd gotten off to an unexpectedly good start in the AHL.


Volcanologist said:
he may bust but I still like the Bracco pick. always draft for skill.
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Yeah, I'll never criticize that draft strategy.

I'd rather draft 10 skill guys and hit on one of them than draft 10 muckers and hit on most of them.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

LeafGm said:
Yeah, considering all the off-ice work they've been doing with him, and the way they've eased him into AHL action, I don't really hold his AHL production against him. It's his lack of production in his last season of junior that concerns me, and that concern would have been lessened if he'd gotten off to an unexpectedly good start in the AHL.
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I think I mentioned this last year, but after he was traded he never seemed to find the chemistry in Windsor that he had in Kitchener with Mascherin. They were lighting it up in the first half of the season and just never seemed to click with anyone in Windsor after they made all their big trades for their Memorial Cup run.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

drafting for skill is one thing, but skill without production is useless.

and yeah #17 i agree that obviously dermott is a far better prospect than bracco. and so is grundstrom. and sparks. and johnsson. and rasanen. and probably some others.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Grundstrom and Korschkov have me excited, as well as Kapanen, up front. Bracco? Has a certain something, and its not just a great last name.
He is very strong on his skates.

I wanted Barzal in 2015, I didn't think he would be this good this fast, but my theory is, if you draft small, draft small in height, but big in body. Barzal is built like a short bear.

I like Marner, quite a bit, but he is a project in terms of building an NHL body still.

Believe it or not, Bracco has been lazy in working out up till recently, according to the media, but lower body? More Barzal than Marner. SO, my hope for Bracco, is that he becomes a gym beast, develops the upper body, and hey, maybe he can play in the show.

Second rounders and further down the draft usually have something against them, if they recognize their weaknesses and build them into strengths, those guys can become players and in rare cases, stars.

Zeke is right, production is production. Late bloomers have to literally jump into a new level phsyically and mentally, to break out of their mean average production level. It is very, very rare.
 
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Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

Bracco scored 1.46 ppg in his last year in junior, plus 8 pts in 4 games at the Memorial Cup. That after a 1.2+ ppg post draft year and one of the better USNDTP U18 season ever.

There was no lack of junior production from Bracco.

And he has 8 points in his last 12 games as a 20 year old AHL rookie, after starting off with 2 points in his first 10 games.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

zeke said:
drafting for skill is one thing, but skill without production is useless.

and yeah #17 i agree that obviously dermott is a far better prospect than bracco. and so is grundstrom. and sparks. and johnsson. and rasanen. and probably some others.
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Tbh even Kapanen was too high for me. I don't think him and Dermott are separated by much as prospects. His justification of not including Dermott is that he doesn't buy the hype since he is not dynamic enough to be a top pair d. I don't think anyone said he will be though... He's pretty safe to be a second pair d much like Kapanen is safe to he a second line winger. I don't think it's likely that either are first line studs but that doesn't mean Dermott shouldn't be in the top fifty...
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

i thought he said dermott was left off because he was on the leafs roster?

i don't think kappy is too high at all. his skillset and production and draft position all justify that rank.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

zeke said:
i thought he said dermott was left off because he was on the leafs roster?

i don't think kappy is too high at all. his skillset and production and draft position all justify that rank.
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Nah he said he has a preconceived bias towards forwards over d and that he feels Dermott isn't dynamic enough to have anything more than second pair upside.

As for Kapanen, I agree his upside is a bit higher than dermott's but I wouldn't bet on him emerging as a true 60+ point guy or anything. He'll be valuable though and really should be playing over about four possession killing forwards they have on the roster currently (brown, Martin, Komarov, hyman). Playing with those four is pretty much like being shorthanded. Watch Nylander when he has the puck, he sees hyman and looks him off because you can't even pass to the guy. He can't ****ing accept an NHL pass without immediately turning it over. It's ridiculous.
 
Re: Leafs' Prospect Discussion Thread!

leafman101 said:
Bracco scored 1.46 ppg in his last year in junior, plus 8 pts in 4 games at the Memorial Cup. That after a 1.2+ ppg post draft year and one of the better USNDTP U18 season ever.

There was no lack of junior production from Bracco.

And he has 8 points in his last 12 games as a 20 year old AHL rookie, after starting off with 2 points in his first 10 games.
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Well yeah, there was. For more than half of his draft+2 season, he scored at only a 22-goal, 1.00PPG pace.

I mean, overall his numbers were OK, based on 17 goals & 51 points he scored in his first 27 games with Kitchener (which also included a team-record consecutive points streak of 26 games). But for the majority of his draft+2 season, he didn't produce anywhere close to what you'd expect from a player with legitimate offensive upside at the NHL level.

And like zeke mentioned, that's not encouraging for a guy who isn't going to be an NHL player on the basis of anything other than his offensive skill.
 
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