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Leafs trade for Foligno

leafman101 said:
iu
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Cute goal on Bishop...who hasn't played in Tampa for what, 5-6 years now?

If 33 yr old Foligno pulls this out of his bag, I will profusely apologize and never question you again.
 
LeafGm said:
A "skill guy" who's in his fourth straight year of scoring at a 30-40 point pace.
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Well yeah. He's got hands and has skill which is what you look for on a line with star players. Didn't say he was a 100 point player.
 
Also I like GForce a lot so far, but I’m hardly comfortable relying on him in the top 6. We’re missing another offensive weapon and now we’ve used our currency and have no more room.
 
Preston said:
Just to add to this I'm not sure I'll ever find a nerd that liked any team that acquired jack johnson in the last several years. But yes, I agree. Hockey analytics are far more subjective than with most sports. It ain't easy. You can clearly obviously see that he is elite defensively, maybe as elite defensively as hall is offensively. How do you value that? Are they equal? Are elite defensive players a market inefficiency as they are usually cheaper and less sexy? Does it depend on the composition of the roster? So many factors. The **** if I know. I just know he makes the team better and more suited to shut down the elite offensive teams that the team hasn't faced this year.
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Exactly , that’s what deadline deals are all about if your a contender

Does the player give us the extra push we need , does he play a role

TB didn’t give a shit about moving firsts for 2 third liners , that was the missing grit needed to supplement the high end skill

Most deadline deals are bullshit , teams giving up firsts and seconds on a teams that are not ready to win anything

This is a solid move to add a gritty shut down forward who plays a heavy game in any situation
 
LeafGm said:
Once upon a time.

But Joe Thornton has had a good offensive season more recently than Nick Foligno has.
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Even Strength paces last 5yrs:

Foligno: 22, 32, 35, 33, 31
Thornton: 23, 27, 39, 31, 32

But of course Joe did that in offensive usage on an offensive team, Nick did in a shutdown role on a defensive team.
 
MindzEye said:
Because Foligno is an offensive black hole. If you want him fetching pucks on the 3rd line, sure. But he's not the guy you want out there supporting a scoring line, unless you're trying to make the scoring line score less.
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Cbj has never had any offense from the forwards...that could be system oriented or it could be that they had zero talented centres.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Now imagine those lines with Hyman in Foligno’s spot and Hall in Hyman’s spot.

Foligno is a good pick up, but for a far lesser price and to play on the fourth line.
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Yeah, you know that I'm the conductor on the Taylor Hall train man.

The Leafs can play like the best defensive team in hockey and 90% of the fanbase still wants more fucking defence.
 
zeke said:
Even Strength paces last 5yrs:

Foligno: 22, 32, 35, 33, 31
Thornton: 23, 27, 39, 31, 32

But of course Joe did that in offensive usage on an offensive team, Nick did in a shutdown role on a defensive team.
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Yeah, but Joe was in his 60's. Foligno in his 20's
 
zeke said:
Even Strength paces last 5yrs:

Foligno: 22, 32, 35, 33, 31
Thornton: 23, 27, 39, 31, 32

But of course Joe did that in offensive usage on an offensive team, Nick did in a shutdown role on a defensive team.
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The comparison to old-ass Joe Thornton was to emphasize that Foligno hasn't been good offensively for a long time.

So a comparison that shows 29-33 year-old Foligno on-par with Joe Thornton from ages 37-41 doesn't encourage me a whole lot.
 
You can hate the target because you feel they should have gotten an offensive guy. That's fine.

But valuing him a third liner is wrong. He brings second line value easily. Sometimes hockey analytics undervalue defensive games quite a bit. Becoming a bit of an inefficiency among analytic-heads.
 
Hoss said:
Cbj has never had any offense from the forwards...that could be system oriented or it could be that they had zero talented centres.
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That's...well...kind of not fucking true my friend.

It wasn't long ago that they had Panarin, PLD, 30-40 goal Atkinson, 2 40-50 point defenders.

Maybe...just maybe, a guy who has scored more than 18 twice in his career just isn't that good offensively?
 
The other thing is....we have seen first hand how offense can dry up in tight checking games. ...
You bring in a strictly offensive minded player...have them quarantine and then only play 15 games left to make things work.

But a guy who can shut down top players, that doesn't fall off as much as offense does.

In my opinion Hall is a slightly better johnnsonn...yup. Alot of speed and decent shot, but no thinking
 
LeafGm said:
The comparison to old-ass Joe Thornton was to emphasize that Foligno hasn't been good offensively for a long time.

So a comparison that shows 29-33 year-old Foligno on-par with Joe Thornton from ages 37-41 doesn't encourage me a whole lot.
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#trustzeke
 
Preston said:
But valuing him a third liner is wrong.
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It's really not.

If you want to make the argument that the previous iterations of Foligno were a legit top 6 forward (never a 1st liner...but top 6, okay), fine. But there's been a significant decline this season. Which is kind on brand with all of these gritty, undersized power forward types once they get north of 31-32 yrs old.
 
Preston said:
Well yeah. He's got hands and has skill which is what you look for on a line with star players. Didn't say he was a 100 point player.
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I know you didn't call him a 100-point player. But you called him a "skill guy".

And I just don't see how that description fits. To even go beyond the past four years, this is a guy who's been a 30-40 point guy for pretty much his entire career, aside from two outlier seasons 5+ years ago when he produced like a legit 1st liner.
 
Preston said:
You can hate the target because you feel they should have gotten an offensive guy. That's fine.

But valuing him a third liner is wrong. He brings second line value easily. Sometimes hockey analytics undervalue defensive games quite a bit. Becoming a bit of an inefficiency among analytic-heads.
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He checks every box you want in a top 9 player come playoff time

Is he the offensive player most want ....no ......but you don’t need goals .....you need grit and guts
 
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