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New Canadian Politics Thread

As to the hypothetical, I'm torn. My leaning is that the American fascist movement doesn't reach critical mass to win elections without Trump and losing to Kamala would have likely been the end of Trump. He's completely fucking cooked now, if they ran him in 2028 again because he still had a grip on the party it would have been a weekend at bernie's style campaign.

My unknowable concern is what that does to the international anti incumbent/populist/small 'a' authoritarian movement. There's good evidence that seeing what Trump has done to America has irrepairably harmed it and we were probably due for a shift away from holding our breath every 4 years hoping that puppies for everyone eeks out the 50.1% victory. It might turn out to be a good thing that innoculates us against the worst impulses of fascist authoritarianism in the future....but can't say that I love playing roulette with the future on that take either if the american movement turns out to be durable beyond Trump's expiration date.

My selfish lean would be to take #1, kick the Trump can down the road and bet on him dying or being beyond senile by 2028 and incapable of running, the Republicans being a clown show trying to carve up the corpse and just living with the somewhat limited damage super majority Pierre would be able to cause in 5 years. I was planning on moving to Mexico anyway, and the chance of american fascism dying on the vine was a real possibility. Definitely the path of least immediate resistence there imo.
 
manny said:
#2 because Trump is a symptom of the rot in the US, not the cause. There’s no prospect of a safe, prosperous world order led by the current version of the US, whether it’s headed by a Democrat or a Republican. There’s at least hope for whatever rises from the ashes, and Trump is the ultimate unintentional arsonist (and yes, we might all die in the fire)
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Forget about Trump. He's a meat puppet. Project 2025 and the oligarchs who conceived it, own Trump and they're not going anywhere. They are also not mere symptoms of rot in the US, they are a main cause of it, as they are in every country that tolerates their existence. The election of Trump in November gave these people the power necessary to implement their plans. Had he not been elected, none of what is happening now would be happening. So Option #2 is always going to be worse than #1.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Forget about Trump. He's a meat puppet. Project 2025 and the oligarchs who conceived it, own Trump and they're not going anywhere. They are also not mere symptoms of rot in the US, they are a main cause of it, as they are in every country that tolerates their existence. The election of Trump in November gave these people the power necessary to implement their plans. Had he not been elected, none of what is happening now would be happening. So Option #2 is always going to be worse than #1.
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You’re contradicting yourself a bit here IMO. Trump is a powerless puppet for the oligarch/autocraric movement, but also somehow essential to them. IMO, a Kamala victory would at best just kick the can down the road until a smarter, more capable version project 2025 acolyte took charge. There are plenty of evil people with more charisma than Trump, so it was inevitable.

Instead, they elected an insane fool, whose megalomania and idiocy are hastening the destruction of the US, and in the meantime there seems to be an emerging international movement to reorganize the international rules-based system to sidestep the US, or at least not be wholly dependent on them. This was long overdue, IMO, but a Harris victory would probably have just entrenched more complacently while the world continued to slowly burn.

TLDR: option 2 is the tear-off-the-bandaid approach to rebuilding a functioning international system.
 
I think you probably want a fascist to be beaten at every turn rather than gambling that it might be better for *this fascist* to win to prevent a future worse fascist victory.

Like this is a lot of fucking damage he's gonna do to the global economy and us.
 
Preston said:
Perhaps a controversial opinion, but for me the scariest part about pp is incompetency. I don't think he's anywhere near the level of GOP evil.
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his evil, to me at least, comes from his complete lack of any principle beyond the pursuit of his own power.

but I agree about his incompetence. he really has accomplished a whole lot of jack shit in 20+ years on the Hill
 
hockeylover said:
I think you probably want a fascist to be beaten at every turn rather than gambling that it might be better for *this fascist* to win to prevent a future worse fascist victory.

Like this is a lot of fucking damage he's gonna do to the global economy and us.
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Maybe?

Depends on your worldview, tbh, and on your view of the resilience of the US.

Trump’s election has revealed a lot about the hatred, hostility and ignorance of our southern neighbours, especially in direct relation to Canada.

Might be better to just have that in the open and deal with it now.
 
LeafGm said:
Interesting hypothetical.

If you could only pick one of these two outcomes, which one would you pick?

1) Kamala Harris wins the Presidency in the US & Pierre Poilievre’s CPC wins a supermajority in Canada.

2) Donald Trump wins the Presidency in the US and Mark Carney’s Liberals win a majority government in Canada.
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3) PP majority and trump wins


But 1.
 
CH1 said:
Took all of 5 mins to vote. Went at 11am — my sweet spot — too late for the early birds, and too early for the lunch crowd
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Yeah, voting here was in a church. Went over there around 1pm, and the parking lot was full, people coming and doing. I thought shit, this is going to take a while. But strolled right in and while some desks had a few people in line, mine was wide open. In and out in 3 minutes.
 
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LeafGm said:
Interesting hypothetical.

If you could only pick one of these two outcomes, which one would you pick?

1) Kamala Harris wins the Presidency in the US & Pierre Poilievre’s CPC wins a supermajority in Canada.

2) Donald Trump wins the Presidency in the US and Mark Carney’s Liberals win a majority government in Canada.
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#1 definately.
 
manny said:
You’re contradicting yourself a bit here IMO. Trump is a powerless puppet for the oligarch/autocraric movement, but also somehow essential to them. IMO, a Kamala victory would at best just kick the can down the road until a smarter, more capable version project 2025 acolyte took charge. There are plenty of evil people with more charisma than Trump, so it was inevitable.

Instead, they elected an insane fool, whose megalomania and idiocy are hastening the destruction of the US, and in the meantime there seems to be an emerging international movement to reorganize the international rules-based system to sidestep the US, or at least not be wholly dependent on them. This was long overdue, IMO, but a Harris victory would probably have just entrenched more complacently while the world continued to slowly burn.

TLDR: option 2 is the tear-off-the-bandaid approach to rebuilding a functioning international system.
Click to expand...
It's not Trump himself who is essential, the P2025 people just need one of "their guys" in power to pull it off. Obviously they would still be around in 2028 to try again, but so long as the Dems controlled the Executive Branch, their plans would always be thwarted.
 
CH1 said:
tired of your little fishing provinces determining who runs the entire country!!!!
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I have strong ties to NB. When I saw the Charlotte country area (adjacent to US border, on Bay of Fundy) go Liberal in 2015, I knew right then that Harper was a dead duck.
 
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