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New Canadian Politics Thread

Preston said:
Can an economist, by definition, be "fiscally liberal" at the end of the day?
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Sure, Keynesians are definitely "fiscally liberal". You're making the mistake in thinking that all economists are advocates of Milton Friedman's bullshit.
 
MindzEye said:
I don't know mate, we're at a point where our problems are becoming existential for democracy and the line between wingnut and "I'll vote for the wingnuts because they complain about the same things I don't like" stops meaning anything on a functional level. A good example of that is going on just south of us. If you're not a wingnut, but you enable the wingnuts who are trying to swap out vaccines for cod liver oil, we're starting to make distinctions without actual differentiation here.

"Oh, me? I would never dream of murdering someone. I just load the gun and hand it to the lunatic". Well what's the fucking difference?
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think we follow american politics really closely and the pattern recognition is there re: polievre mimicking trump but i feel like for a large swath of people it probably wasn't much more complicated than 10 years of libs and inflation got crazy, someone else please.

i think that makes them maybe a little foolish but prob not wackjobs.
 
hockeylover said:
i still don't exactly know what they heard from polievre re: buying a house that is making so many young people on my social media think polievre = i can get a house and carney = i'll never get a house but that's my whole social media right now.
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The amount of people that think pp = cheap houses for all is flabbergasting, yeah. The truth is it's an uphill battle no matter who is pm of course.
 
Pwner said:
I get nervous with this "remove red tape/ roadblocks" talk. What I think it really means: removing or lessening environmental protections.

Whiiiiich concerning Oil and Gas, seems like a bad idea.

Now, if you mean, there are multiple agencies from both the Federal and Provincial governments having a say and slowing down the process. Sure, Nationalize it.
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That's more or less what he's suggested we do. Instead of 13 different sets of regulations, departments, and processes, one unified set of rules that everyone agrees upon and a federal help desk to shepherd companies through the process efficiently.
 
Preston said:
A good economist doesn't box himself into a label at all! There are times to be liberal and times to be conservative!
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Eh, most economists if pressed will self identify as a member of whatever "school", but usually with qualifiers. "Liberal" & "Conservative" are amorphous terms that shift meaning depending on where on earth you are. "Keynsian","Friedmanite", "Austrian", etc have pretty firm definitions.
 
MindzEye said:
Eh, most economists if pressed will self identify as a member of whatever "school", but usually with qualifiers. "Liberal" & "Conservative" are amorphous terms that shift meaning depending on where on earth you are. "Keynsian","Friedmanite", "Austrian", etc have pretty firm definitions.
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Yes but we were discussing liberal vs conservative, not Keynesian vs friedmanite.

Tldr: Carney is an alt right extremist
 
hockeylover said:
i still don't exactly know what they heard from polievre re: buying a house that is making so many young people on my social media think polievre = i can get a house and carney = i'll never get a house but that's my whole social media right now.
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Wildest bit is that Carney's plan is PP's plan....but on top of PP's plan, an entirely new federal agency that is going to build 100's of thousands of houses a year.

PP's plan was basically just cutting GST on house purchases up to 1.3 million...but GST is only charged on new builds, and that obviously benefits people who can spend 1.3 million more than it does people who can only afford 400-500K, for multiple reasons. Firstly because 13% of 1.3 million is more money, and second because homebuilders make way higher margins on those 1.3 million dollar houses and will just build those instead if they have the choice.
 
MindzEye said:
Wildest bit is that Carney's plan is PP's plan....but on top of PP's plan, an entirely new federal agency that is going to build 100's of thousands of houses a year.

PP's plan was basically just cutting GST on house purchases up to 1.3 million...but GST is only charged on new builds, and that obviously benefits people who can spend 1.3 million more than it does people who can only afford 400-500K, for multiple reasons. Firstly because 13% of 1.3 million is more money, and second because homebuilders make way higher margins on those 1.3 million dollar houses and will just build those instead if they have the choice.
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yeah, a comment on my football group chat was "god 15% income tax reduction and home sales tax reductions would've been real nice, what a dream. oh well"

But it wasn't a 15% income tax reduction (even though this was how they described it), it was a reduction of 15% to the lowest tax bracket so 2.25%. Carney promised a 1% cut to the lowest tax bracket. The problem is the person who said this isn't even in the lowest tax bracket.

And Carney's was cutting GST on houses up to 1 million vs PP 1.3 million (think his was initially 1m too)

It kinda seems like a lot of them were just misinformed.
 
hockeylover said:
yeah, a comment on my football group chat was "god 15% income tax reduction and home sales tax reductions would've been real nice, what a dream. oh well"

But it wasn't a 15% income tax reduction (even though this was how they described it), it was a reduction of 15% to the lowest tax bracket so 2.25%. Carney promised a 1% cut to the lowest tax bracket. The problem is the person who said this isn't even in the lowest tax bracket.

And Carney's was cutting GST on houses up to 1 million vs PP 1.3 million (think his was initially 1m too)

It kinda seems like a lot of them were just misinformed.
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Some willfully, others incapable of understanding the nuance of super basic policy.
 
Preston said:
I personally believe that most people are just misinformed at a historic rate rather than blatantly evil. But I'm an optimistic fella!

And that's not to say that every idea on the left is correct and every idea on the right is wrong. I'm mostly referring to the people who subscribe to the right wing narratives that can be disproven by facts.
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I use the term wingnut to describe someone who's been "brainwashed" in some way by misinformation on social media. And keeps spreading more and more of it. Would not say they are evil at all (with a few obvious exceptions). And we have our own on the far left, absolutely.

MindzEye said:
we're at a point where our problems are becoming existential for democracy
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It's a huge fucking problem, nobody is questioning that. I don't even know if there's any way to fix it, and I am generally an optimist. We abso-fucking-lutely have to try, though. Using fact-based arguments is essential but it seems like we're all agreeing that they do have some good ideas too. The trick is swimming through a river of bullshit to find them.
 
Ironically Zeke gets nervous when progressives use spreadsheets instead of the eye test
 
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