OT: American Politics

[FlyGuy]

Let's say Ukraine does this surrenders that land. What is to stop Russia is 4-8years time from not doing it again.

What is to stop them from not doing it again? How about not putting missiles on their border similar to the cuban missile crisis? How about simply not provoking them? How about honoring the agreement when the soviet union was dissolved that the west would not expand NATO to Russia's border?

 

[FlyGuy]

Buncha Neville chamberlains in here

Yep. An FDR, too. Preserving life is the ultimate virtuous position in this conflict. Real easy to throw someone else's sons, fathers, brothers to the meat grinder.

This fantasy of "Russia invading Europe" is some weird cold war fear. The world is globalized and not in a position where this is reasonable for any country to go on such a crusade, much less one with the GDP of New York . Hell, the US acting as global peacekeeper (lol at that) is crippling it's own prosperity long term.

 

[zeke]

Russia literally just invaded Europe.

 

[zeke]

What is to stop them from not doing it again? How about not putting missiles on their border similar to the cuban missile crisis? How about simply not provoking them? How about honoring the agreement when the soviet union was dissolved that the west would not expand NATO to Russia's border?

Why does russia get to dictate other countries' foreign policy?

 

[worm]

Why does russia get to dictate other countries' foreign policy?

Because the bots say so.

 

[zeke]

Europe isn't allowed to be "provoked" by russia invading neighbours multiple time.

But Russia is allowed to be "provoked" by no western counery ever invading russia once.

 

[FlyGuy]

Trump sentencing delayed indefinitely oof

 

[zeke]

Hell, the US acting as global peacekeeper (lol at that) is crippling it's own prosperity long term.

This is hilariously backwards. US being the global peacekeeper is the reason its so economically prosperous.

 

[FlyGuy]

Europe isn't allowed to be "provoked" by russia invading neighbours multiple time.

But Russia is allowed to be "provoked" by no western counery ever invading russia once.

Europe ie The West has been intervening all over the world in overturning democratically elected leaders for decades. They don't get the benefit of the doubt. If a nuclear power says fuck off, you fuck off. But no, the west kept pushing the envelope because their warmongers.

 

[FlyGuy]

This is hilariously backwards. US being the global peacekeeper is the reason its so economically prosperous.

Global chaos and conflict is what keeps the US prosperous? Bullshit.

 

[WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou]

And so what if I am? How does that affect you?

Ok, now I’ve decided I’m a communist. How does that affect you now?

Ok, now I’m a libertarian. How do you feel now?

Do I not have the right to choose? Ok, then what is wrong with my changing how I identify. How does it affect you how I identify? What is the purpose of labeling someone?

Your source of moral superiority and comfort in virtue is laughable.

Yes, you can choose to be whatever you like but at least have the courage of your convictions. If you're a fascist (and, spoiler alert: you are) then have the balls to own it instead of disingenuously pretending that you're something else, which is basically what you've been trying to get away with ever since you started posting here. You're as transparently fascist as Lindsey Graham is gay. He isn't fooling anyone and neither are you. So either own what you are or, if that makes you uncomfortable (and, spoiler alert: it fucking well should) then it's time for you to reexamine your life.

 

[zeke]

Global chaos and conflict is what keeps the US prosperous? Bullshit.

The American century has been the most stable and least war torn in human history, you nitwit.

 

[zeke]

Europe ie The West has been intervening all over the world in overturning democratically elected leaders for decades. They don't get the benefit of the doubt. If a nuclear power says fuck off, you fuck off. But no, the west kept pushing the envelope because their warmongers.

Man you really hate your country.

Anyways, there are a whole bunch of nuclear powers currently telling russia to fuck off and stop invading other countries.

All russia has to do is go back to russia, and they never have to worry about the big bad west.

 

[mbow30]

Yep. An FDR, too. Preserving life is the ultimate virtuous position in this conflict. Real easy to throw someone else's sons, fathers, brothers to the meat grinder.

This fantasy of "Russia invading Europe" is some weird cold war fear. The world is globalized and not in a position where this is reasonable for any country to go on such a crusade, much less one with the GDP of New York . Hell, the US acting as global peacekeeper (lol at that) is crippling it's own prosperity long term.

Holy shit.

 

[cmon3]

So you're not actually for freedom of speech. Got it. I don't necessarily feel that way but I don't get offended when others do. Why does it matter so much to you that people hold different opinions?

Freedom of speech means you’re allowed to say fuck you in response to a point you don’t like. It doesn’t mean I need to continue having the discussion. I suppose Fuck you is an opinion. It’s probably not one someone would express in person.

It’s not worth trying to have a discussion with someone like that though. Not that it hurts my feelings at all, but it’s pointless.

It doesn’t matter to me that people have different opinions. Happy to discuss those but when the reply is name calling, or fuck you etc. That doesn’t make for a very interesting discussion. That’s close to my entire point. If your response to what you disagree with is you’re garbage or deplorable, or a Nazi, or fascist or fuck you, you lost the argument and any chance of convincing anyone that your opinion has any merit. Same thing when you distort and take out of context and use the extremes and exceptions to support your positions. If you want to misstate a position then make your points about why it’s wrong - what’s the point of that?

 

[zeke]

Freedom of speech means you’re allowed to say fuck you in response to a point you don’t like. It doesn’t mean I need to continue having the discussion. I suppose Fuck you is an opinion. It’s probably not one someone would express in person.

It’s not worth trying to have a discussion with someone like that though. Not that it hurts my feelings at all, but it’s pointless.

It doesn’t matter to me that people have different opinions. Happy to discuss those but when the reply is name calling, or fuck you etc. That doesn’t make for a very interesting discussion. That’s close to my entire point. If your response to what you disagree with is you’re garbage or deplorable, or a Nazi, or fascist or fuck you, you lost the argument and any chance of convincing anyone that your opinion has any merit. Same thing when you distort and take out of context and use the extremes and exceptions to support your positions. If you want to misstate a position then make your points about why it’s wrong - what’s the point of that?

It is absolutely adorable that you have convinced yourself that name calling is something the left does, not the right. Your entire movement is based on name calling.

 

[WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou]

The FBI’s Biden-Era Murder Estimates Are Far Below the Number of Homicides Recorded on Death Certificates

‘The FBI has been burying its crime data since the first year of the Biden administration’

news.grabien.com

Another obvious talking point dismantled. More fake data.

Your source, as usual, is garbage. Fascist propaganda.

From mediabiasfactcheck.com

"Overall, we rate Grabien Right biased based on story selection and sourcing that significantly favors the right. We also rate them borderline Questionable for factual reporting due to failed checks and the use of sources with very poor track records with fact-checkers."

And who owns Grabien "By The Pussy" News? Why, it's none other than Tom Elliott, who was the former executive producer of Laura Ingraham's radio show.

Where do you find all these scumbag "news" outlets?

 

[WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou]

When did they stop teaching simple concepts like cause and effect in american schools?

Probably around the same time they did away with civics classes.

 

[FlyGuy]

Man you really hate your country.

Anyways, there are a whole bunch of nuclear powers currently telling russia to fuck off and stop invading other countries.

All russia has to do is go back to russia, and they never have to worry about the big bad west.

I hate the oligarchs running it that consider foreign policy interventionism more important than the affairs of the domestic citizens, yes.

"All you have to do is dissolve the soviet union and you'll never have to avoid the big bad west." Meanwhile expand NATO closer and closer and eventually putting missiles on Russia's border.

 

[Wayward DP]

is there a point in trying to have a serious discussion when half (more than half) of the folks on this board post things like:

“Anyone who thinks anything Trump is a good idea is completely fucked in the head and deserves every bit of shit flung their way.“

It’s why you have an echo chamber here and why you think you’re all right and superior to anyone who has other ideas.

You can’t have it both ways. If you’re here in good faith and want to actually engage, that requires you to articulate and defend your views.

I genuinely want to know which Trump policies/ideas you prefer, so I can understand why someone would choose Trump over Harris. I may not agree, but if you’re unwilling to even express or defend any ideas, how would this place be anything other than a shouting match?

I tried this at length pre-election with FlyGuy, and while I obviously don’t agree with most any of his ideas (or accept the ‘facts’ he relies upon to support them), I thought there was value in engaging. I still do. But it takes two to tango