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OT: American Politics

cmon3 said:
I don’t agree with this but Ukraine is a good illustration. We have good intentions. We want Russia to in-invade Ukraine. But that’s not possible. So what is the best solution that’s attainable from where we are now?
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Simple. Help Ukraine kill Russian orcs. That's the best solution. Bleed their incompetently led, sub zero morale Red Army until it turns white.
 
zeke said:
Yes it is.
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No it’s not. It’s done. It can’t be undone. People are dead, towns are destroyed etc. it can’t be undone.

How far are we willing to go to push them out? To remove Putin from power? WW3? You can’t say we need to make Russia reverse what they did without stepping up for what that might require. We need to pursue what is the best solution to end this. That doesn’t mean Russia isn’t to blame for this.

When you have a bunch of players playing with the ability to flip the board and end the game for everyone you have to take that into consideration. What are you willing to end the game for?
 
FlyGuy said:
It's taught very well. Nuclear power says don't make our neighboring state part of your warring alliance. Nuclear power says don't provide missiles to said country. Nuclear power says don't help that country use those missiles to strike deep in our country. Nuclear power lowers the limits they need to use said Nukes.

You know why Trump won hispanics? Because hispanics don't give a fuck about Ukraine, either.

The lengths you all go to to defend plain, transparent corruption in Ukraine in the name of some laughable "democracy" bullshit never ceases to amaze me.
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When did Ukraine join NATO? I must have missed that.

Also, cute how Vlad has made your movement his little bitch. What happened to American power?
 
FlyGuy said:
Why does it concern the west at all? There are so many more important things to spend money on domestically. Oh, it's because western bureaucracies money launder through the most corrupt country in europe.
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The most corrupt country in Europe, until the Tories were finally tossed out on their asses after 14 years, was the UK. It was a laundromat for every Russian oligarch out there.
 
cmon3 said:
I don’t agree with this but Ukraine is a good illustration. We have good intentions. We want Russia to in-invade Ukraine. But that’s not possible. So what is the best solution that’s attainable from where we are now?
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The Afghans got the Russians to withdraw and they received less help from the US than the Ukrainians already get.
 
cmon3 said:
I don’t agree with this but Ukraine is a good illustration. We have good intentions. We want Russia to in-invade Ukraine. But that’s not possible. So what is the best solution that’s attainable from where we are now?
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This is easy to me - maintain the rules based international order. Territorial integrity and sovereignty need to mean something, or the bigger world powers can go back to raping and pillaging and colonizing.

If we go back to ‘might is right’ we’re condemning generations of Ukrainians, Taiwanese, and perhaps Poles and Koreans too.
 
FlyGuy said:
What is to stop them from not doing it again? How about not putting missiles on their border similar to the cuban missile crisis? How about simply not provoking them? How about honoring the agreement when the soviet union was dissolved that the west would not expand NATO to Russia's border?
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Putin can't be trusted to honor agreements any more than Trump can.
 
FlyGuy said:
What is to stop them from not doing it again? How about not putting missiles on their border similar to the cuban missile crisis? How about simply not provoking them? How about honoring the agreement when the soviet union was dissolved that the west would not expand NATO to Russia's border?
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The invasion was unprovoked.

They invaded Crimea because they were upset that their hand-picked despot had been deposed.

You’re living in a fantasy land screaming at imaginary clouds
 
cmon3 said:
No it’s not. It’s done. It can’t be undone. People are dead, towns are destroyed etc. it can’t be undone.
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Yes it can. Russian troops back to russia. Fin. Over.

cmon3 said:
How far are we willing to go to push them out? To remove Putin from power? WW3? You can’t say we need to make Russia reverse what they did without stepping up for what that might require. We need to pursue what is the best solution to end this. That doesn’t mean Russia isn’t to blame for this.
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Keeping Ukraine well supplied with weapons seems easy and effective. The least we can do.

Of course as Ukraine and the rest of europe knows, the only ultimately effective deterrent on russian aggression is getting nato membership - which is why Ukraine and all euro countries want nato membership. These countries don't get invaded by nato, they turn to nato so they can keep their countries.

cmon3 said:
When you have a bunch of players playing with the ability to flip the board and end the game for everyone you have to take that into consideration. What are you willing to end the game for?
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So you are fine with russia invading whoever they want, and the us and the world doing nothing, because russia has nukes. Got it.
 
Wayward DP said:
When did Ukraine join NATO? I must have missed that.

Also, cute how Vlad has made your movement his little bitch. What happened to American power?
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Ukraine doesn't have to be part of NATO to be the most corrupt country in Europe and western oligarch's playground. Doesn't have to be part of NATO to be a western puppet and take an aggressive threatening stance at Russia's border. Not to mention European leaders advocating for Ukraine in NATO.

American power? Remind me why I gaf? What does that do for my daily life right now besides endanger me because some fucking idiots are provoking a nuclear war? Further my families future debt and taxes with the ridiculous spending. A countries prosperity and power is measured by the quality of life it maintains for it's citizens. The purpose of a government that represents the people is take care of its citizens, not go stir up shit all over the world to further woke agendas and steal country resources.
 
Tryamw said:
Let's say Ukraine does this surrenders that land. What is to stop Russia is 4-8years time from not doing it again.
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That’s a valid question. Do we nuke them to stop them now? Or let them nuke first then fire back? Is that better? Bottom line is there’s not a good answer. We can wish it was different but we need to find the best solution from the current point. And it has to be an obtainable solution.

So ideally - Original borders restored and Putin out of power and nobody else dies to get there. What’s your plan?
 
Wayward DP said:
This is easy to me - maintain the rules based international order. Territorial integrity and sovereignty need to mean something, or the bigger world powers can go back to raping and pillaging and colonizing.

If we go back to ‘might is right’ we’re condemning generations of Ukrainians, Taiwanese, and perhaps Poles and Koreans too.
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Tell that to the US. Interfering in elections all over the world. Brazil, Venezuela, Ukraine, Africa, middle east on and on and on
 
zeke said:
Yes it can. Russian troops back to russia. Fin. Over.



Keeping Ukraine well supplied with weapons seems easy and effective. The least we can do.

Of course as Ukraine and the rest of europe knows, the only ultimately effective deterrent on russian aggression is getting nato membership - which is why Ukraine and all euro countries want nato membership. These countries don't get invaded by nato, they turn to nato so they can keep their countries.



So you are fine with russia invading whoever they want, and the us and the world doing nothing, because russia has nukes. Got it.
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You're simply hopeless.
 
FlyGuy said:
I hate the oligarchs running it that consider foreign policy interventionism more important than the affairs of the domestic citizens, yes.

"All you have to do is dissolve the soviet union and you'll never have to avoid the big bad west." Meanwhile expand NATO closer and closer and eventually putting missiles on Russia's border.
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I hate to break this to you but Elon Musk? He's an oligarch. Peter Thiel, the guy with JD Vance's ball sack in a jar on his nightstand? Also an oligarch.

You clearly don't hate all oligarchs.
 
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