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OT: American Politics

cmon3 said:
No. Not alright with it. But not willing to end this in a nuclear exchange either. Are you?

Again. Keep misrepresenting my position and then refuting that.

What’s your plan Zeke? Mine is you stop shooting and resolve this because all the keep shooting scenarios played to the end are catastrophic. Unless you think we can keep shooting until Putin quits and is out of power without using nukes. And how many more lives is that outcome worth?
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The plan is to keep supplying ukraine with weapons while using all economic and politic levers to pressure putin to go home.

The fact you think putin is stupid enough to start a global nuclear war instead of just stopping his invasion if Ukraine is actually a great argument to do whatever we can to stop him.
 
SundinsTooth said:
Fucking cowards. Jesus Christ, it's nauseating. Thank fuck Ukraine has some balls. These motherfuckers would be in the room with Chamberlain coaching along the Munich Agreement signing...or more likely out in the antechamber gaslighting the Czech reps.
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Ukraine can get fucked. Couldn't give less of a shit.
 
FlyGuy said:
It's been proven. Trump and his admin wanted to stop payments to get an investigation into where they were actually going and he was impeached for it. Clear as fuckin day.
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Yes america is apparently "risking ww3" because ukraine is apparently THE crucial irreplaceable money laundering hub. Nowhere else could they run these supposed money laundering operations. So ww3 it is.

That is obviously the only rational sensible explanation.

You fucking morons.
 
FlyGuy said:
Ukraine can get fucked. Couldn't give less of a shit.
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Yes, you don't care because you're a fascist who has been brainwashed by Russian bots and you want Russia to win.

You want to know why you believe that Ukraine is a corrupt country despite the complete lack of evidence? Because the Russians told you. That was their limp dicked "justification" for the invasion. It was a lie then and it's a lie now.
 
cmon3 said:
No. Not alright with it. But not willing to end this in a nuclear exchange either. Are you?

Again. Keep misrepresenting my position and then refuting that.

What’s your plan Zeke? Mine is you stop shooting and resolve this because all the keep shooting scenarios played to the end are catastrophic. Unless you think we can keep shooting until Putin quits and is out of power without using nukes. And how many more lives is that outcome worth?
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First of all, you cannot let Russia do literally anything they want because they have nukes. Pro tip: a lot of countries have nukes. Putin is evil, but he is not stupid.

Let's say that one day you and FlyGuy wake up and find out that your neighbours have moved their fences 20 feet closer to your house and smashed all your windows. Now from what I read here, Fly's response would be to say that the neighbour has a gun, and he shouldn't say or do anything about it because it might make the neighbour mad.

Now at least you are willing to acknowledge that your neighbour is in the wrong. But is the answer just the leave the fence where it is, fix the windows yourself, and declare a truce? You feel that it may be impossible to put the fence back to where it was originally and have the neighbour pay for all the damage to your house. Maybe you're willing to agree to move the fence back 12 feet and split the cost. But if he has threatened to attack everyone else on the street and these homeowners have helped you fix your windows, does giving up and letting him do whatever the fuck he wants make any sense here?

Silly example, and I think we all understand that Ukraine may have to give up something in negotiations that they don't want to. But IMO the only way to get this done is to find an agreement that both sides can live with. Letting Russia do whatever they want and keeping all the land they already got is not that.
 
zeke said:
Yes america is apparently "risking ww3" because ukraine is apparently THE crucial irreplaceable money laundering hub. Nowhere else could they run these supposed money laundering operations. So ww3 it is.

That is obviously the only rational sensible explanation.

You fucking morons.
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when in reality all they need to do is ask Trump for a phone # from one of his contacts at Deutsche Bank
 
FlyGuy is worried that if the US has to spend effort defending Ukraine, they won't be able to deport the grandmothers who came in illegally 35 years ago. The true menaces to society.
 
cmon3 said:
No. Not alright with it. But not willing to end this in a nuclear exchange either. Are you?

Again. Keep misrepresenting my position and then refuting that.

What’s your plan Zeke? Mine is you stop shooting and resolve this because all the keep shooting scenarios played to the end are catastrophic. Unless you think we can keep shooting until Putin quits and is out of power without using nukes. And how many more lives is that outcome worth?
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I'd like the shooting to stop too. Russia holds those keys. As to how long let Ukraine decide. They are the one paying in blood. We probably are running at a slight $ disadvantage . Especially compared to food stamps which return well over a $ for every $ we put in. Note there is some elasticity in this and there will be varying rates of return based on total dollars. But the US makes the money on the hardware we make. Most of the equipment was older stock in the last years of service life and it's cheaper to donate then to render inert.
 
W
cmon3 said:
That’s a valid question. Do we nuke them to stop them now? Or let them nuke first then fire back? Is that better? Bottom line is there’s not a good answer. We can wish it was different but we need to find the best solution from the current point. And it has to be an obtainable solution.

So ideally - Original borders restored and Putin out of power and nobody else dies to get there. What’s your plan?
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we let the ukrainians destroy and degrade the russian army and supply them with all our (your) old gear. That’s all they’ve ever wanted
 
FlyGuy said:
The US led a coup against the democratically elected leader in 2014 gtfoh
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Millions of Ukrainians who took to the streets beg to differ.

Unless you think they’re part of some global mind control conspiracy? You probably think this, which would be maybe the most hilariously ironic position you have taken.
 
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