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OT: American Politics

zeke said:

View: https://x.com/igorbobic/status/1900654995730538555
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Democrats are about to have a civil war when they only had a small chance to stop Trump in the first place.

This is like if a few months after the Russians invaded Ukraine, Team Zelensky and Team Poroshenko decided to fight a war against each other to figure out who was better suited to tackle the Russian threat.

Clown.Fucking.Shoes.

Kill the party and start over.
 
MindzEye said:
Hopefully Tim learned his lesson to never listen to Democrat "strategists" again in his life. Just be Tim and people will elect him to do stuff.
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I think you're overstating this. I don't think Tim changed that much of his messaging during the campaign. They just lost because too many people in that country are complete fucking morons.
 
axlsalinger said:
I don't think Tim changed that much of his messaging during the campaign.
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From Politico:
its-confirmed-now-harris-aides-forced-tim-walz-to-exclude-v0-cp5701uzejne1.jpeg


and

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and
1741989509885.png
 
He did appear flustered later on and it hurt him, I think that was him stumbling rather than being influenced by some kind of strategy change. Of course maybe it was a result of being "neutered" or some change in tactics, it's possible. I still think Mindz overstates the importance of this by giving it too much weight. Also, (a) I heard him use "weird" later in the campaign, plus (b) I think it's pretty common to move on from something after it's been heavily used for a couple of months. Memes and tactics get played out and become less effective as a result, all the time.
 
Yeah admittedly I also overrated him in the beginning. He faded at the end of the campaign and he definitely has to own some of that.

Though Kamala faded too, she came out strong and confident and by the end was not the same person. From my vantage point, in real time, it sure felt like a strategic shift and over preparation causing some of their issues.
 
axlsalinger said:
He did appear flustered later on and it hurt him, I think that was him stumbling rather than being influenced by some kind of strategy change. Of course maybe it was a result of being "neutered" or some change in tactics, it's possible. I still think Mindz overstates the importance of this by giving it too much weight. Also, (a) I heard him use "weird" later in the campaign, plus (b) I think it's pretty common to move on from something after it's been heavily used for a couple of months. Memes and tactics get played out and become less effective as a result, all the time.
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People like authentic candidates. The Dem strategists tried to push him from being Tim Walz into kicking their messaging across, and yeah it's common to not overuse lines that get reaction, but not to completely abandon the entire style of communcating about your opponent. Dem strategists thought they knew better than everyone else. They were the people who insisted that swing voters were "Cheney Republicans" and had Kamala carry Liz Cheney around like a new hand bag for a few weeks, they were the same people who talked her out of the economic populism she adopted early in the campaign, and yeah they were the same people who were apparently pretty desperate to get Tim to stop calling republicans weird.

There's a fuckton of behind the scenes accounts out there now. No one uses names of course (other than the people who were really fast to throw Tony West under the bus) but it's all of the known Democrat "A Team" muppets. This isn't even a controversial take, the new DNC Chair ran on gutting the legacy consultants from the party, something that hasn't been done in 20 years now.
 
MindzEye said:
People like authentic candidates. The Dem strategists tried to push him from being Tim Walz into kicking their messaging across, and yeah it's common to not overuse lines that get reaction, but not to completely abandon the entire style of communcating about your opponent. Dem strategists thought they knew better than everyone else. They were the people who insisted that swing voters were "Cheney Republicans" and had Kamala carry Liz Cheney around like a new hand bag for a few weeks, they were the same people who talked her out of the economic populism she adopted early in the campaign, and yeah they were the same people who were apparently pretty desperate to get Tim to stop calling republicans weird.

There's a fuckton of behind the scenes accounts out there now. No one uses names of course (other than the people who were really fast to throw Tony West under the bus) but it's all of the known Democrat "A Team" muppets. This isn't even a controversial take, the new DNC Chair ran on gutting the legacy consultants from the party, something that hasn't been done in 20 years now.
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This is also true…. Thinking Liz Cheney was some draw was tone deaf. People increasingly want dynamic voices that promise they can deliver the opposite of business as usual
 
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