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OT: American Politics

zeke said:
the point would be simple - to make public that what McConnell is doing is pathetic and wrong, to not grant trump and the gop the talking point of "acquittal", and to keep the issues and evidence of the matter alive and at hand.
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It won’t matter. Nobody is listening to the other side. It’s pathetic.
 
zeke said:
the point would be simple - to make public that what McConnell is doing is pathetic and wrong, to not grant trump and the gop the talking point of "acquittal", and to keep the issues and evidence of the matter alive and at hand.
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People already see through what McConnell and the Republicans are doing. It's well documented. Plenty of people have testified already and brought forth evidence and it hasn't made a lick of difference. Public opinion supports him getting impeached, but that hasn't swayed Republican lawmakers. Having a few more people talk about how corrupt he is doesn't make a difference.
 
Habsy said:
It won’t matter. Nobody is listening to the other side. It’s pathetic.
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The Republicans are not willing to listen to testimony. And yet you continue to "both sides" this shit into oblivion. There is only one side who is literally refusing to look at the evidence and vote fairly and objectively (as they were sworn in to do).
 
leaffan2005 said:
Okay, that is one Democrat. The minute the guy started pulling impeachable offenses/abuses of power is when people were calling for his head. May have started with the Comey firing, and it has continued with Stormy, the illegitimate national security crisis to get his border wall, the Russia fiasco, and now Ukraine. There has literally not been a moment since he has been president where he has not conducted impeachable offenses.

You are making it seem like he was so quiet and innocent and everybody had it out for him out of pure spite. He deserved this shit, full stop.
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Stop inferring a defense of Trump the man, I won’t do it. He reaps what he sows for sure. I don’t like unilateral actions in government, it usually means there’s not enough there.
 
leaffan2005 said:
The Republicans are not willing to listen to testimony. And yet you continue to "both sides" this shit into oblivion. There is only one side who is literally refusing to look at the evidence and vote fairly and objectively (as they were sworn in to do).
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Just stop. Neither side is listening to the other. They float talking points, nothing more. Compromise is dead and that is both sides. To say otherwise is disingenuous.
 
Habsy said:
Stop inferring a defense of Trump the man, I won’t do it. He reaps what he sows for sure. I don’t like unilateral actions in government, it usually means there’s not enough there.
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There are no unilateral actions. They have the majority in the house and they looked at the evidence and impeached him. Testimony from people like Sondland was heard and used in deciding whether to pursue the charges. The other side is now saying they will not look at any evidence, won't call on any witnesses and have blatantly said that there is no way he will be removed from office.
 
Seems like this is going to be won or lost in the suburbs. Drive up the margin of victory in the major cities and turn more of the suburbs blue like we saw in most of the places the Democrats have flipped so far. Think you can reach out to suburban women.
 
Habsy said:
Just stop. Neither side is listening to the other. They float talking points, nothing more. Compromise is dead and that is both sides. To say otherwise is disingenuous.
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Waste of time discussing this with you. You continue to float these nonsense one-liners about "Washington being dead" and "politics just suck" and just deny responding to real talking points.
 
leaffan2005 said:
People already see through what McConnell and the Republicans are doing. It's well documented. Plenty of people have testified already and brought forth evidence and it hasn't made a lick of difference. Public opinion supports him getting impeached, but that hasn't swayed Republican lawmakers. Having a few more people talk about how corrupt he is doesn't make a difference.
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That's an opinion.
 
zeke said:
That's an opinion.
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Based on 3 years of Trump doing impeachable shit and Republicans defending him at every turn. The public opinion may have changed but no meaningful change has been made in convincing the other side that their leader is corrupt and frankly incompetent. I would say it is more than just an opinion and really just a reflection of the current political climate. Holding the articles is just a bad flex at this point.
 
If you really want to hurt the guy you vote him out. That will be the biggest blow to his ego.
 
I mean, McConnell is going to do the minimum possible before going to a vote, whether it happens now or happens later. The timing is irrelevant ... this is all kabuki theatre at this point anyway. The Senate is going to squash the indictment along party lines, which has been patently obvious from the start. Anybody expecting otherwise is truly kidding themselves.
 
Its not about hurting him. Its about not letting the president use foreign aid as a bargaining chip for personal gain.

The House did what they had to and are supposed to. The Senate won't, but that was never a good reason not to impeach him. The decision to impeach should never have been decided based on PR for the next election.
 
jeffbear said:
I mean, McConnell is going to do the minimum possible before going to a vote, whether it happens now or happens later. The timing is irrelevant ... this is all kabuki theatre at this point anyway. The Senate is going to squash the indictment along party lines, which has been patently obvious from the start. Anybody expecting otherwise is truly kidding themselves.
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Pretty sure no one in this thread ever said otherwise though.
 
Habsy said:
If you really want to hurt the guy you vote him out. That will be the biggest blow to his ego.
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Him getting knocked out of office before his term ends would be the death knell to his ego. I, like others, would also prefer for him to just lose in the election but his actions are just setting a bad precedent for future presidents being able to do whatever the hell they want and getting away with it because of a partisan political shield. Him getting removed would send a message that this shit won't be tolerated from any future asshats who plan to run a similar administration.

All hypothetical speak anyway. No way he gets removed and sadly, he still has a great chance to win in 2020.
 
leafman101 said:
Its not about hurting him. Its about not letting the president use foreign aid as a bargaining chip for personal gain.

The House did what they had to and are supposed to. The Senate won't, but that was never a good reason not to impeach him. The decision to impeach should never have been decided based on PR for the next election.
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It’s also about setting a precedent that the GOP will use in the future. This is not a solid impeachment. Be careful the box you open up.
 
Looking at the Michigan and Pennsylvania maps, it seems like all the dark blue counties that went Hilllary by a huge margin also saw turnout drop significantly, either because Hillary wasn't a great candidate or because people thought she had it in the bag, or more likely a combination of both. She won Wayne County by 37 points but turnout dropped 5%.

The Democrats could still screw this up I guess but the numbers are easily there for them to win.
 
Habsy said:
It’s also about setting a precedent that the GOP will use in the future. This is not a solid impeachment. Be careful the box you open up.
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I couldn't disagree more. Just like Clinton impeachment didn't create a loose impeachment precedent, and Nixon, and the Jackson.

The only precedent it creates is that the next time a President uses foreign aid as a bargaining chip to obtain personal gain, and obstructs the investigation they can be impeached. Just like if a president lies under oath. As they should be.
 
Really? I think it’s pretty clear where I stand.

The only witness with first hand knowledge is Sondland. The hearings were a sham, just like it will be in the Senate. Under their articles you could impeach every president, ever.

This is not enough for impeachment. That’s my opinion anyway. I get you’re a part of the other half that disagrees and that’s fine. I need more than the bare minimum when it comes to impeachment.
 
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