OT: American Politics

[MindzEye]

The system is far from perfect by the way and there certainly are inefficiencies. I'd encourage the government to focus on operations to make things smoother and help more people, as opposed to finding ways to reduce my taxes.

This...and my tax bill is significant. I'm in the earnings area where I make enough that a significant chunk of my earnings are dinged at the top marginal rate, but I don't make enough that it don't really "miss" what Uncle Stephen takes. With that said, I'm entirely cool with it all as long as the services we're all paying for are quality and well run.

 

[MindzEye]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...6a-b801f1abab19_blog.html?wprss=rss_plum-line

Posted at 01:46 PM ET, 08/17/2012 TheWashingtonPost Romney advisers confirm it: We’re running a `just trust me’ campaign
By Greg Sargent
I noted here yesterday that Mitt Romney is running a “just trust me” campaign, in which his lack of specificity and transparency extends far beyond just his tax returns, to his bundlers and to large swaths of his policy proposals. Intriguingly enough, Romney advisers have now come right out and confirmed the thinking behind this strategy.

In a development that Dems are pouncing on right now, Romney advisers spelled it all out in interviews with Mike Allen and Jim VandeHei:

Advisers say the campaign has no plans to pivot from its previous view that diving into details during a general-election race would be suicidal.
The Romney strategy is simple: Hammer away at Obama for proposing cuts to Medicare and promise, in vague, aspirational ways, to protect the program for future retirees — but don’t get pulled into a public discussion of the most unpopular parts of the Ryan plan.
“The nature of running a presidential campaign is that you’re communicating direction to the American people,” a Romney adviser said. “Campaigns that are about specifics, particularly in today’s environment, get tripped up.”
You don’t say! Let’s step back and survey the overall picture so far.

Romney has broken with recent precedent — his father included — in refusing to release his tax returns, but he says has paid 13 percent for 10 years. (Just trust me.) Romney has not released the names of his major bundlers, but he won’t be beholden to his donors, as Obama has been. (Just trust me.) Romney vows to eliminate the deficit, and promises that his tax plan will be revenue neutral, even though he won’t say which loopholes and deductions he’d eliminate to pay for deep tax cuts that disproportionately benefit the rich. (Just trust me.) Romney says he intends to eliminate whole agencies of government, but won’t say which ones, except in closed-door meetings with donors, and even then, details are scarce. (All together now: Just trust me.)

Both Romney and Ryan have already confirmed in interviews that they see no need to share details of how his tax cuts would be paid for until after the election, when it all can be worked out with Congress. And when it comes to Romney’s vow to eliminate whole agencies and programs, Romney has freely admitted that he won’t specify which ones for the explicit reason that so doing would be politically problematic for him.

 

[hockeylover]

oh f*ck off. f*ck right off. completely uncalled for. arguing for something that isnt an entirely state-run single-payer system is not being a "selfish douche", and those who try to suggest that are f*cking idiots. hope your biopsy turns out. my wife had to wait weeks going out of her mind for hers.

Saying "If I'm healthy, why should I have to pay more in taxes that will go to people that aren't?" which you just said a few posts ago isn't being a selfish douche? Really?

 

[Volcanologist]

This...and my tax bill is significant. I'm in the earnings area where I make enough that a significant chunk of my earnings are dinged at the top marginal rate, but I don't make enough that it don't really "miss" what Uncle Stephen takes. With that said, I'm entirely cool with it all as long as the services we're all paying for are quality and well run.

tsk tsk, you'd make a lousy Objectivist Mindz. all that caring about other people? pfff.

 

[leafman101]

oh f*ck off. f*ck right off. completely uncalled for. arguing for something that isnt an entirely state-run single-payer system is not being a "selfish douche", and those who try to suggest that are f*cking idiots. hope your biopsy turns out. my wife had to wait weeks going out of her mind for hers.

Of course its being a selfish douche you selfish douche. Too many people can't afford to make their own choices. In the US there are more people without health insurance/care than any other first world nation in the world.

So yes, if you don't want to help out your canadian brothers and sisters who can't afford basic health care than you are a selfish douche. Selfish douche.

 

[leafman101]

And if you have money here you can still go to the states and avoid the wait times and get top notch care, just like you can if you have money in the States.

Just here if you don't have money you can still get health care without destroying your financial situation.

Its the best of both worlds in Canada.

 

[HabsAddict]

As a 20-something year old with no family and in perfect health up until just recently, I really cringe when I read this. I'm sure this gets people into trouble in the States.

This is a big issue in the US. Out of 40 odd million who that don't have any insurance and the left cries for, about a third are young people who refuse to get any....until they smash their face on a rock. Then they beocme a "see what happens without gooberment health care" statistic.

 

[SundinsTooth]

aren't a third of young people unemployed though?

 

[hockeylover]

This is a big issue in the US. Out of 40 odd million who that don't have any insurance and the left cries for, about a third are young people who refuse to get any....until they smash their face on a rock. Then they beocme a "see what happens without gooberment health care" statistic.

I might be in the same boat in the US unfortunately. And my screening test? Might not have gone/put it off if I'd had to pay for it.

 

[blacksheep]

Obama is spending a billion dollars or more on this election, Romney about $400 million. People are dying of unimaginable pain from disease and poverty is rife everywhere... what's wrong with this picture?

I call B.S. A "billion"?? Sorry. Not even the NY Times agrees with those numbers:

http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/campaign-finance

 

[leafman101]

Either way its a waste of money. Campaigns have turned into something pretty ridiculous. Its all attack adds and PR missions. Save the money and just have a bunch of debates where you can actually talk about issues and your platform and stop treating the electorate like they are a bunch of idiots.

 

[LeafGm]

The health care argument is just a gulf between some people that's simply never going to be crossed. Not when you have some (like myself, and most of this board I'm assuming) that believe access to health care is a basic human right, and then you have whackos like KB and a significant chunk of voters in the States that believe it's something you should pull yourself up by your bootstraps and pay for yourself (either that, or get a cushy taxpayer-funded job that takes care of it).

 

[leafman101]

Any true conservative should be in favour of health care. You need your consumers to be healthy and educated, not sick, stupid drains on the economy.

 

[HabsAddict]

Really? This is your counter argument?

There's absolutely nothing other than your say so to support this. The greek legal, and taxation system is, and has been broken for generations. That is simply not the case in Canada.

Ontario has 280 billion dollar debt and 15 billion dollar deficit. Is the Ontario tax system "broken" for generations?

I never said that wasteful spending isn't a problem...simply that Greece's biggest problem is that everyone expects those services, but refuses to pay taxes for them to be funded. The Greek taxation system is completely broken.

Repeat.....Ontario has 280 billion dollar debt and 15 billion dollar deficit. Do Ontario residents expect services, but refuse to pay taxes for them to be funded.?

Or as I stated in my previous post...absence of government is the problem there, not "too much government". The government is far too absent in policing the taxation system...that's the problem.

In the case of McGuinty, there is more of an absence of mind rather then government. Again, there is nothing here that holds water when the same debts can be incurred by rich first world areas.

Government revenues are fine in Canada.

Helllo.....Ontario.

and none of those problems, however much hand waving is done about them, would be nearly as important as they are if the government wasn't absent in tax collection.

See above....

There are numerous examples of too little government in the world as well...Greece is an example of what can happen to a small, economically unimportant nation when it is mismanaged for generations. Not sure how that is instructive for other western nations.

In Ontario's case, it's mismanaged for only 9 years. Give it time.

The only real argument you have in Greece's case is it's ability and/or means to pay it's debt. That's it, nothing more. To which I can easily counter argue that given scale and cost of living, even rich countries (or provinces) entitlement and wasted can overwhelm it's ability to pay. There is no escaping the links between debt/deficits, entitlements, taxes and economic prosperity.

Historically, you will be tempted to use the German/Sweede/Blah example as counter argument. It's not relevant. They have struck a balance of a higher rate taxes to entitlements. The minute they resort to debt/deficit spending to cover them, they too will fall into the trap.

Universal truth is that governments simply can't spend their way into prosperity and entitlements through borrowed bliss (hello obama). PERIOD. The subsequent lessons of what happens is what we are getting from Greece. The collapse of it's economy trying to deal with debt and entitlements and the subsequent tears that starting to appear in their social fabric, is very much a relevant lesson. To ignore these lessons is to be ignorant.

 

[mbow30]

Either way its a waste of money. Campaigns have turned into something pretty ridiculous. Its all attack adds and PR missions. Save the money and just have a bunch of debates where you can actually talk about issues and your platform and stop treating the electorate like they are a bunch of idiots.

and we can thank the supreme court for exacerbating this problem.

it is only going to get worse.

 

[blacksheep]

Any true conservative should be in favour of health care. You need your consumers to be healthy and educated, not sick, stupid drains on the economy.

That's the ultimate irony of the whole thing. They ****ing HATE anybody on welfare or any kind of social safety net, yet are completely oblivious to the drain on their money that the sick would be.

 

[zeke]

Obama is spending a billion dollars or more on this election, Romney about $400 million. People are dying of unimaginable pain from disease and poverty is rife everywhere... what's wrong with this picture?

Not sure what you're complaining about - that's not public money they're spending.

That's mostly money from very rich people, being injected all over the economy and country. Call it stimulus spending.

 

[zeke]

The health care argument is just a gulf between some people that's simply never going to be crossed. Not when you have some (like myself, and most of this board I'm assuming) that believe access to health care is a basic human right, and then you have whackos like KB and a significant chunk of voters in the States that believe it's something you should pull yourself up by your bootstraps and pay for yourself (either that, or get a cushy taxpayer-funded job that takes care of it).

except it's not even that.

the vast majority of those who think they are against "public healthcare" are 100% for Medicare. It's simply hypocrisy.

 

[zeke]

Thanks zekie, sounds like everything will be fine though!

good to hear!

it's crazy how many people get cancer scares nowadays. even if the recovery rate is actually pretty damn good it's still scary as all shit.

 

[zeke]

This is a big issue in the US. Out of 40 odd million who that don't have any insurance and the left cries for, about a third are young people who refuse to get any....until they smash their face on a rock. Then they beocme a "see what happens without gooberment health care" statistic.

the problem is you end up paying for those idiots anyways. obamacare makes them pay for themselves.