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OT: American Politics

theREALkoreaboy said:
who's been in charge the past 3 years, "mr.conservative"?
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You do comprehend the standard mechanisms of cause and effect, right? When you're dealing with something as complex as a nation's economy, particularly one as large and diverse as the United States, any economic policies implemented will likely take years to take effect.
 
theREALkoreaboy said:
his wildly left-wing domestic policies contributed greatly to the very, very, very negative business climate that we have seen these past 3 years.
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Bullshit. This was a consumer-led recession and will be a consumer-led recovery. Business investment has been reasonably good but more or less irrelevant, your argument is 100% crap. This economic crisis is about household debt deleveraging and a commensurate drop in aggregate demand. It has nothing to do with the supply side.

By the way, if total government spending growth rates had been as strong as during the socialist Raygun years after the 1981 recession, the unemployment rate would be significantly lower.
 
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JaysCyYoung said:
I'm far from an Obama fan but this is ridiculous.
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I'm cranky over plenty of shit with Obama. Internet censoring (SOPA,PIPA, ACTA), Gitmo, not wrestling down wall street (which is not the economy, the financial services industry has become an anchor on economic growth...wall street has become a run away parasitic industry) not including single payer in his health care plan (if the US was able to get it's cost per person down to what Canada spends, it's deficit would vanish...single payer would do that)

But yeah, he stared a re run of the 30's in the face and didn't blink. His stewardship of that mess has been strong, at worst.
 
blacksheep said:
Sure, and that one indicator defines his success or failure, right?
Not to mention the fact that unemployment numbers are always played with. ie: when someone's unemployment benefits run out, they're dropped off the list, making it appear that unemployment went down.
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Not to mention the fact that the standard unemployment rate is different from the real unemployment rate (which includes those who have given up looking for work amongst other groups). To measure the success of an economy sheerly by unemployment figures is misleading. The interest rates, average growth, and other factors need to be taken into consideration. You can't just cherry pick one category and then extrapolate a conclusive set of data to it accurately.
 
JaysCyYoung said:
Not to mention the fact that the standard unemployment rate is different from the real unemployment rate (which includes those who have given up looking for work amongst other groups). To measure the success of an economy sheerly by unemployment figures is misleading. The interest rates, average growth, and other factors need to be taken into consideration. You can't just cherry pick one category and then extrapolate a conclusive set of data to it accurately.
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... unless your name is KrauthammerBoy.
 
Well...in fairness. Real unemployment is still high, real inflation is still high (ignore the hilarious core inflation numbers provided by the US government, they're gamed beyond any sort of usefulness and more or less always have been), they still have a significant trade imbalance, though manufacturing is up...which is a serious plus, the savings rate has started to correct itself (a function imo, of millions of shattered credit ratings...but whatever the mechanism, it's good news)

The US economy is still very, very shaky. That though, is significantly better than where it could have...****...should have been after the collapse. It wasn't very far from financial armageddon imo.
 
As an aside...real inflation being as high as it is, mixed with how low the bond rate is...is why the debt isn't a big deal yet. It's very serviceable imo because every dollar of debt the US is taking on right now (not to say this is going to go on forever....but currently) is probably earning them 3-4% annual ROI because they're inflating their currency at a much higher rate than they're paying out in interest on their bonds.

I actually wouldn't be at all surprised if this was the behind closed door policy of the US Fed & Treasury.
 
MindzEye said:
Well...in fairness. Real unemployment is still high, real inflation is still high (ignore the hilarious core inflation numbers provided by the US government, they're gamed beyond any sort of usefulness and more or less always have been), they still have a significant trade imbalance, though manufacturing is up...which is a serious plus, the savings rate has started to correct itself (a function imo, of millions of shattered credit ratings...but whatever the mechanism, it's good news)

The US economy is still very, very shaky. That though, is significantly better than where it could have...****...should have been after the collapse. It wasn't very far from financial armageddon imo.
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Yes, and yes. It's all true. We're definitely not completely out of the woods, (nor should any sane person with a reasonable grasp on economics feel we should be by now), but we are slowly digging out of this massive hole. It's hilarious that some of Obama's biggest detractors have changed to a "but it's not happening fast enough - you need to put us back in" argument, when much of the time being taken to recover is wasted by their own obstruction to anything Obama tries to do. If Boehner would just shut the **** up and let things be fixed, we'd be further ahead now. If Obama would just stop trying to include all his detractors in his changes and forge ahead, we'd also be further ahead now.
There's a lot to criticize Obama for, but even when there is credit to be given, we can rest assured it won't be forthcoming.
 
MindzEye said:
The US economy is still very, very shaky. That though, is significantly better than where it could have...****...should have been after the collapse. It wasn't very far from financial armageddon imo.
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This. Which is why top Democrats, top Republicans, and top economists all basically agreed certain things needed to be done at the time. This reversal now to try and blame Obama for not turning the economy around from hemorrhaging to booming on a dime, is disingenuous and absurd.
 
MindzEye said:
Well...in fairness. Real unemployment is still high, real inflation is still high (ignore the hilarious core inflation numbers provided by the US government, they're gamed beyond any sort of usefulness and more or less always have been), they still have a significant trade imbalance, though manufacturing is up...which is a serious plus, the savings rate has started to correct itself (a function imo, of millions of shattered credit ratings...but whatever the mechanism, it's good news)

The US economy is still very, very shaky. That though, is significantly better than where it could have...****...should have been after the collapse. It wasn't very far from financial armageddon imo.
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I don't disagree with you often, but there's nothing wrong with core inflation numbers and they are what matter for setting Fed policy. Bad wheat crops in Russia and Iranian oil footsie are irrelevant to monetary base and commercial lending practices. I agree with everything else....
 
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