• Moderators, please send me a PM if you are unable to access mod permissions. Thanks, Habsy.

OT: MLB Thread

Sal_Butera said:
Not sure if you’re aware the Expos are only a small part of a potential multibillion real estate project spearheaded by Claridge & Devimco. Claridge = Bronfman private equity firm, they know that Griffintown is billions in development. The next big thing in Mtl

A major team will allow the group to seek nice perks such as a REM station right to the site. With housing shortage and economic recovery money flowing timing is great.

Re: important games
the proposed layout has games from April to mid-June in TBay, and rest of the season in Mtl, playoffs would alternate yearly between the two cities

I still find it hard to believe the most powerful union in pro-sports MLBPA would approve such a move but alas..

MLB is a distant #3 pro sport here in the US now - significantly behind NBA & NFL. The commissioner & owners know it, there’s also the issue of desperation - how to grow the revenue base of MLB in the future
Click to expand...
Oh I'm well aware of Claridge (I used to work security for them about 30 years ago. Been inside the homes of all the major players including S. Bronfman) I also know that the team and stadium is just a component of a larger real estate play. Most new stadium projects in North America these days are about area redevelopment, not just a new stadium, because the real money is in all those overpriced condos (see: Molson, Geoff)

But the Expos are the component that tugs at the heartstrings of sports fans who Bronfman and his people are hoping will act against their own interests and give billionaires tax dollars that would be better spent on other things that people need. Multibillion dollar real estate projects tend to benefit only the developers. Like pro team owners, they get the profits while offloading costs and debts on to the public. And you know that any major construction project in Montreal is going to incur debt. It will be awash in corruption as always and end up costing many times more than estimated.

Unfortunately the Expos won't work for the same reason why the Nordiques will never work. The value of a franchise isn't in the price you pay for it but in how much you can flip it for 5 or 10 years down the road. The problem with Quebec is that it's a small pond. If Bronfman doesn't own the club, who else in Quebec has the wherewithal or the desire to pay market value for them? In other words, the only way Bronfman can make a profit from owning the team is if he can sell it down the road. But the only way he could do that is to sell it to someone not from Montreal who will inevitably move the franchise someplace else. Bronfman therefore has no interest in paying to build a stadium out of his own money, a stadium that will be yet another white elephant in a decade when there's no team playing there. The arena in Quebec is already a white elephant because it is clear that unless a team like Phoenix needs to relocate there's no way they ever see another team.

I'm quite sure that all the other stuff planned for the Peel Basin area will get built. But I'm not so sure a ballpark ever does.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Oh I'm well aware of Claridge (I used to work security for them about 30 years ago. Been inside the homes of all the major players including S. Bronfman) I also know that the team and stadium is just a component of a larger real estate play. Most new stadium projects in North America these days are about area redevelopment, not just a new stadium, because the real money is in all those overpriced condos (see: Molson, Geoff)

But the Expos are the component that tugs at the heartstrings of sports fans who Bronfman and his people are hoping will act against their own interests and give billionaires tax dollars that would be better spent on other things that people need. Multibillion dollar real estate projects tend to benefit only the developers. Like pro team owners, they get the profits while offloading costs and debts on to the public. And you know that any major construction project in Montreal is going to incur debt. It will be awash in corruption as always and end up costing many times more than estimated.

Unfortunately the Expos won't work for the same reason why the Nordiques will never work. The value of a franchise isn't in the price you pay for it but in how much you can flip it for 5 or 10 years down the road. The problem with Quebec is that it's a small pond. If Bronfman doesn't own the club, who else in Quebec has the wherewithal or the desire to pay market value for them? In other words, the only way Bronfman can make a profit from owning the team is if he can sell it down the road. But the only way he could do that is to sell it to someone not from Montreal who will inevitably move the franchise someplace else. Bronfman therefore has no interest in paying to build a stadium out of his own money, a stadium that will be yet another white elephant in a decade when there's no team playing there. The arena in Quebec is already a white elephant because it is clear that unless a team like Phoenix needs to relocate there's no way they ever see another team.

I'm quite sure that all the other stuff planned for the Peel Basin area will get built. But I'm not so sure a ballpark ever does.
Click to expand...

Another NHL team wont work , the league wants a thriving large USA city not a tiny QC
 
GEEMAN said:
Another NHL team wont work , the league wants a thriving large USA city not a tiny QC
Click to expand...
WeHave is accurate North American pro sports is all about maximizing real estate development as a function of population.

For MLB their only US alternatives are LV, Nashville or Orlando.

Both TBay and Miami have been disasters for baseball, can’t see owners agreeing on Orlando.

The only 3M+ population locale they have potential to within US & Canada is Mtl - unless they start considering Mexico which is another ball of wax completely

I suspect As move to Vegas - SF will be content to takeover entire Bay Area & up north, and LA, SD and LAA will have all of central, southern & inland Cali to split amongst themselves.

Unlike NHL, there simply aren’t many US options left for MLB, who have stalled financially and looking for ways of growing their business
 
Last edited:
Sal_Butera said:
WeHave is accurate North American pro sports is all about maximizing real estate development as a function of population.

For MLB their only US alternatives are LV, Nashville or Orlando.

Both TBay and Miami have been disasters for baseball, can’t see owners agreeing on Orlando.

The only 3M+ population locale they have potential to within US & Canada is Mtl - unless they start considering Mexico which is another ball of wax completely

I suspect As move to Vegas - SF will be content to takeover entire Bay Area & up north, and LA, SD and LAA will have all of central, southern & inland Cali to split amongst themselves.

Unlike NHL, there simply aren’t many US options left for MLB, who have stalled financially and looking for ways of growing their business
Click to expand...

I agree but corporate support will be limited , and team will bleed money every year

Creative financial engineering will be key to survival , we dont have the USA shell game
 
GEEMAN said:
I agree but corporate support will be limited , and team will bleed money every year

Creative financial engineering will be key to survival , we dont have the USA shell game
Click to expand...
TBay has a $44M payroll, the top-10 teams in MLB spend above $126M.

With current revenue sharing, if Cleveland, KC, Pitt etc have teams .. a well located proper ballpark an MLB team should survive in Mtl, but will likely never thrive - unless the management & scouting remains elite in a league of their own.

The elephant in the room is the TV deal. Bronfman gave up everything west of Belleville in 1976 to maintain exclusive territorial rights to Quebec & Atlantic Canada.

Is there a legal loophole, to get access to the lucrative Southern Ontario horseshoe that Jays own exclusivity to via challenge in court if need be?

If there is a way, then it’ll get interesting what Bell / TSN could cough up for broadcasting right$
 
Last edited:
Sal_Butera said:
TBay has a $44M payroll, the top-10 teams in MLB spend above $126M.

With current revenue sharing, if Cleveland, KC, Pitt etc have teams .. a well located proper ballpark an MLB team should survive in Mtl, but will likely never thrive - unless the management & scouting remains elite in a league of their own.

The elephant in the room is the TV deal. Bronfman gave up everything west of Belleville in 1976 to maintain exclusive territorial rights to Quebec & Atlantic Canada.

Is there a legal loophole, to get access to the lucrative Southern Ontario horseshoe that Jays own exclusivity to via challenge in court if need be?

If there is a way, then it’ll get interesting what Bell / TSN could cough up for broadcasting right$
Click to expand...

Good point about the TV deal

Plus , lockout or CBA deal looming

The system is broken from the minors up , lets see what happens next

You cant have that massive gap in payroll between the haves / nots

The average to good player gets crucified with service / arbitration years and cant get paid until late 20`s - early 30`s

MLB is a mess
 
GEEMAN said:
Good point about the TV deal

Plus , lockout or CBA deal looming

The system is broken from the minors up , lets see what happens next

You cant have that massive gap in payroll between the haves / nots

The average to good player gets crucified with service / arbitration years and cant get paid until late 20`s - early 30`s

MLB is a mess
Click to expand...
Not really, the only issue with MLB revenue sharing is there is no mandatory payroll floor as in the NHL, so many teams simply pocket the $ they receive for profit instead of re-investing in players

Top-13 largest markets contribute to revenue share with 3-teams at neutral (do not receive or pay - Blow Jays being one), and the rest of the teams being recipients

TBay and Miami being the worst welfare culprits at over $50M each. Notice, TBay has a $44M payroll while Marlins have a $15M payroll (re: owners pocketing profit)
 
In a country with only 2 MLB teams there should be no such thing as "territorial broadcast rights". Both the Jays and Expos should have access to 100% of the country's viewers. No one in Toronto is going to not bother going to Rogers Place simply because there's an Expos game on TV and nobody in Montreal is giving away their tickets just because there's a Jays game on the tube.

I've got a reality check for the Jays brass: when the Expos died I didn't switch my allegiance or my viewership to the Jays simply because they were the only option. I just stopped watching MLB for the most part and when I did watch I made sure to only watch games that didn't involve Toronto. I've been doing that for the last 16 years. And now that there are half a hundred ways of getting access to whatever game you want to watch no matter where you live (both legally, quasi-legally and outright illegally) pushing territorial broadcast rights like it's still the 1970's is beyond stupid.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
I've got a reality check for the Jays brass: when the Expos died I didn't switch my allegiance or my viewership to the Jays simply because they were the only option. I just stopped watching MLB for the most part and when I did watch I made sure to only watch games that didn't involve Toronto. I've been doing that for the last 16 years.
Click to expand...

💯

Totally. This.

I would consider following a team in Havana. That’s it.
 
Missed in all this discussion is the viability issue. MLB will use this to assess the return of a team to Montreal.
 
Well, this sign/advert thing during the playoffs seems somewhat definitive. Why would they do it otherwise?

Still, it seems weird and a little unseemly.
 
lecoqsportif said:
Well, this sign/advert thing during the playoffs seems somewhat definitive. Why would they do it otherwise?

Still, it seems weird and a little unseemly.
Click to expand...
To put the screws to city hall in Tampa, that's why. If they put up the sign during the regular season no one but the 5000 die hards who actually go to Rays games will see it. In the postseason, they'll sell out (or maybe not. It is Tampa, after all) and they'll get national TV coverage.

This is all about leverage. And anyone who longs for a return of the Expos would be wise to root for whichever team is playing against the Rays. The sooner they are eliminated the sooner any talk of Tampa building them a new ballpark gets tamped down. If the Rays go all the way, the momentum will grow and by the end of the World Series Sternberg will have a stadium deal in his hip pocket and will forget that he ever knew Stephen Bronfman.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
In a country with only 2 MLB teams there should be no such thing as "territorial broadcast rights". Both the Jays and Expos should have access to 100% of the country's viewers. No one in Toronto is going to not bother going to Rogers Place simply because there's an Expos game on TV and nobody in Montreal is giving away their tickets just because there's a Jays game on the tube.

I've got a reality check for the Jays brass: when the Expos died I didn't switch my allegiance or my viewership to the Jays simply because they were the only option. I just stopped watching MLB for the most part and when I did watch I made sure to only watch games that didn't involve Toronto. I've been doing that for the last 16 years. And now that there are half a hundred ways of getting access to whatever game you want to watch no matter where you live (both legally, quasi-legally and outright illegally) pushing territorial broadcast rights like it's still the 1970's is beyond stupid.
Click to expand...
I laughed at Blue Jay tweets that stated 30000 sounded like 37 million (a play on that Canadiens' fan from the playoffs) but while they have support across the country, there is no way the entire country supports them like they think they do.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top