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OT: MLB Thread

No wonder the Rays are threatening to move to Montreal. A 100 win team that chokes in the playoffs is the most Expos thing a franchise can do. They may as well just move now.

Seriously though, for people hoping for a relocation the Red Sox victory last night was the best possible outcome. Had Tampa advanced they would have picked up more fairweather fans and perhaps even some grasping local politicians who might have put the team on a path toward a new stadium. But now that they've been eliminated fan interest will revert to the mean and there will be no pressure, grassroots or political, to get anything done.

And on opening day 2022 you can expect to see that sign heralding the sister city concept displayed prominently inside the Trop.
 
Sal_Butera said:
www.tampabay.com

Rays pitch Montreal plan, MLB owners take no action for now

The commissioner says other business took precedence. Stuart Sternberg said there could be a response in a few weeks.
www.tampabay.com www.tampabay.com

MLB is focusing on CBA at the moment but a vote on the twin city project could be coming soon.
Click to expand...
It's just tightening the screws on Tampa-St. Pete to get a stadium deal done. MLB supports any team owner trying to extort taxpayer money for a new park. It's practically the only reason to own a franchise anymore. But unless or until shovels go into the ground to build a new park in Montreal (which is never going to happen, at least not with taxpayer money, and especially now that Coderre isn't coming back) it will remain an empty threat. The Rays may indeed relocate after 2027, but it won't be to Montreal unless Bronfman gets off his ass.

The Blow Jays announced today that they won't be playing any pre-season games at the Big O for the third year in a row. You'd think that the Rays, if this sister city concept is for real, would want to schedule a preseason series in Montreal asap, to give local fans a chance to see their future part-time team. But no. Nothing is planned.

it's all bullshit. It's never going to happen.
 
www.lapresse.ca

Stade de baseball à Montréal | Bronfman demande des centaines de millions à Québec

Le groupe de Stephen Bronfman demande à Québec une contribution financière pouvant aller jusqu’à quelques centaines de millions de dollars pour son projet de stade de baseball à Montréal, a appris La Presse. Le projet est d’une valeur totale d’environ 1 milliard de dollars. Si le gouvernement va...
www.lapresse.ca www.lapresse.ca

Looks like the team needs a couple hundred million from the QC government. We have a friend who worked on the 2013 proposal, and the estimates are so off it's not even funny. Everyone knows even with inflation it will cost closer to 1BN to build a stadium not 585mn. This is Quebec, and materials/raw goods have gone up way more than inflation for construction but even 500mn was not realistic to start.

Second, the ownership group is a bit cheap, the cycle of the Rays competing with the Red Sox/Blue Jays/Yanks with a 75m payroll (in the 2013 proposal) will eventually fade. An uncompetitive team with an ownership group that can't spend 150-170mn on a payroll in this city, lol. I give it 5 years until the stadium is at 8-10k a game. Too bad though.
 
You had to know that at some point Bronfman would come to the public looking for a handout. These things don't get done without taxpayer money because the whole point of the exercise is to get other people to pay for stuff. That's how rich people get rich and stay rich: by getting you and me to pay for their stuff.

If the Panama Papers are to be believed (which they should) then Steve Bronfman should be able to finance a stadium just by flipping the cushions on his living room couch. But why should he spend when he can get the taxpayers to assume all the costs and debts while he keeps the profits private?

In the end I think the taxpayers will, through public pressure on local politicians, tell Bronfman to pound sand. The Rays can move to just about anywhere else and make money. It doesn't have to be Montreal nor does it have to be part-time.
 
xposbrad said:
www.lapresse.ca

Stade de baseball à Montréal | Bronfman demande des centaines de millions à Québec

Le groupe de Stephen Bronfman demande à Québec une contribution financière pouvant aller jusqu’à quelques centaines de millions de dollars pour son projet de stade de baseball à Montréal, a appris La Presse. Le projet est d’une valeur totale d’environ 1 milliard de dollars. Si le gouvernement va...
www.lapresse.ca www.lapresse.ca

Looks like the team needs a couple hundred million from the QC government. We have a friend who worked on the 2013 proposal, and the estimates are so off it's not even funny. Everyone knows even with inflation it will cost closer to 1BN to build a stadium not 585mn. This is Quebec, and materials/raw goods have gone up way more than inflation for construction but even 500mn was not realistic to start.

Second, the ownership group is a bit cheap, the cycle of the Rays competing with the Red Sox/Blue Jays/Yanks with a 75m payroll (in the 2013 proposal) will eventually fade. An uncompetitive team with an ownership group that can't spend 150-170mn on a payroll in this city, lol. I give it 5 years until the stadium is at 8-10k a game. Too bad though.
Click to expand...
That's the other thing: the long term viability of the franchise, or lack thereof. Why should we think that Expos 2.0 will be any more successful than the old Expos? Last time I looked, MLB was still a business of have's and have not's and any team in Montreal would be in the latter group. They will never be able to compete with the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs and Dodgers. Hell, they won't even be able to compete with the Blue Jays. And we all know what happens to sports teams in Montreal that don't win often enough. Unless their name is Canadiens they go broke or leave town. And when the day comes for Bronfman to sell (which always inevitably comes because the value of a franchise isn't the owning of it but the selling of it) who in Montreal is going to have the scratch to buy it and keep it there? Another penniless "consortium" of small time francophone investors?

Spare us.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
You had to know that at some point Bronfman would come to the public looking for a handout. These things don't get done without taxpayer money because the whole point of the exercise is to get other people to pay for stuff. That's how rich people get rich and stay rich: by getting you and me to pay for their stuff.

If the Panama Papers are to be believed (which they should) then Steve Bronfman should be able to finance a stadium just by flipping the cushions on his living room couch. But why should he spend when he can get the taxpayers to assume all the costs and debts while he keeps the profits private?

In the end I think the taxpayers will, through public pressure on local politicians, tell Bronfman to pound sand. The Rays can move to just about anywhere else and make money. It doesn't have to be Montreal nor does it have to be part-time.
Click to expand...
Many of the US ballparks are privately built, it started w the Giants building Pacific Bell ( now Oracle Park), unfortunately MTL does not have that level of wealthy individual(s) who views $1.5B ballpark as a personal endowment
 
Sal_Butera said:
Many of the US ballparks are privately built, it started w the Giants building Pacific Bell ( now Oracle Park), unfortunately MTL does not have that level of wealthy individual(s) who views $1.5B ballpark as a personal endowment
Click to expand...
The Giants didn't have a choice but to finance it themselves. They tried 4 times to scam the money from the taxpayers but each time it came to a referendum vote the good burghers of San Francisco told them to pound sand. At that point then-owner Bob Lurie was all set to sell the Giants to a group that was going to move them to Tampa (before the Rays were a thing) and the only reason that didn't happen is because the other owners blocked him. He eventually sold the club to a local consortium who between themselves shelled out the dough to build the ballpark. The only concession they ever got from the city was a relaxation of the building height restrictions along the waterfront so that they could build there. And the Port Commission owns the land on which the stadium sits so the Giants pay rent to the city to boot. I believe the lease agreement was set to run for over 60 years.

But the point is that they only used their own money because the taxpayers told them to go fuck themselves, which is what Montreal taxpayers should be telling Bronfman. He and Garber could build a stadium easily with all the money they have (especially all that tax sheltered money revealed in the Panama Papers) They just don't wanna. They want Jos. Publique to pay.
 
Legault says no taxpayer money for stadium
montrealgazette.com

No taxpayer money will be spent on a baseball stadium for Montreal: Legault

"It is out of the question," the Quebec premier told the legislature.
montrealgazette.com montrealgazette.com

I am kind of happy. The ownership group, while it being the only one, wanted to do things cheap from the get go and I don't see a long term viable plan from what is being proposed. The question remains, would you rather no team at all or a cheap ownership group that would be limited in spending including payroll in the most competitive division in baseball? I think I would love to see Bell step in to bring a team here even if it's in 5 years. We know Tampa's lease expires in 2027 but do they renew, do they permanently relocate here? I just can't see fans being receptive to a split city team and if for some reason they become uncompetitive.
 
xposbrad said:
Legault says no taxpayer money for stadium
montrealgazette.com

No taxpayer money will be spent on a baseball stadium for Montreal: Legault

"It is out of the question," the Quebec premier told the legislature.
montrealgazette.com montrealgazette.com

I am kind of happy. The ownership group, while it being the only one, wanted to do things cheap from the get go and I don't see a long term viable plan from what is being proposed. The question remains, would you rather no team at all or a cheap ownership group that would be limited in spending including payroll in the most competitive division in baseball? I think I would love to see Bell step in to bring a team here even if it's in 5 years. We know Tampa's lease expires in 2027 but do they renew, do they permanently relocate here? I just can't see fans being receptive to a split city team and if for some reason they become uncompetitive.
Click to expand...
There's a difference between being cheap and being poor. The old Expos consortium headed by Brochu was a bit of both but mostly and even all together they didn't have the cash to play in the big leagues. Bronfman and Garber may be trying to cheap out but they ain't poor. Far from it. If they wanted to they could put a competitive team on the field and could afford to build them a park to play in. They just don't wanna. They want the taxpayers to build it for them because that's the MLB business model. It's all about real estate and government subsidies nowadays because these rich guys don't want teams to own them, they want teams so that they can flip them for a profit 5 or 10 years down the road.

This is why franchise valuation reports like we got yesterday with the Habs are now so important. I mean what do you care what your house is worth today if you have no plans to sell it? I bought a condo 2.5 years ago and a year after I bought it it's appraisal value decreased by about $8000. But all that meant to me was a reduction in my property tax bill. I wasn't looking to sell so I didn't care about fluctuations in the real estate market. Today it's worth about $8000 more than what I paid for it but again so what? I'm living there and not looking to sell. But sports franchise owners are always looking to see how much they could make if they were to sell because they are always looking to sell if the price is right.

The problem with the Expos if they come back (and the Nordiques also) is that if they were to be put up for sale down the road there is no one locally who could afford to buy them and keep them where they were so they would either have to go under or relocate again. You can make an argument that the Expos and/or the Nordiques would be viable but that's only in terms of putting teams in those cities and leaving them there forever. But that's not how any of this works. The value of any franchise isn't what you pay for it but what you sell it for. If you locate your franchise in a city in which it is impossible to sell it and have it stay where it is then what's the point of doing it at all? If the Habs could be put up for sale and not attract a single local buyer what would happen to the Expos or Nordiques? Putting an MLB team in Montreal or an NHL team in Quebec City in this day and age makes no sense. Not when we're talking about the kind of money it takes to play nowadays. It's a waste of time.
 
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