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OT: Politics & News... Have at it.

lecoqsportif said:
Stimulus was too small.

That said, the US came out of this mess better than other counties that had similar meltdowns.

They easily have the capacity to handle their debts, but they need to get a clue and start raising taxes to more normal levels.
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The stimulus wouldn't have been too small had the big banks not decided to use the money to pay out their executive bonuses. Obama should have let them all fail or, at the very least, have mandated government oversight into how the stimulus money was used. Frankly I don't know why the government should care whether some big multinational fails or not. In reality, these companies are only marginally "American" anyway. All the jobs were outsourced to China a long time ago and, in the end, that is what will be the death of the US: the fact that they no longer manufacture a damn thing anymore. It's all done in China and China isn't under US control. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Back in the 50's when America was enjoying the greatest period of prosperity in its history, the richest citizens were taxed at a rate of 91% and 1/3 of the overall workforce was unionized. Corporations employed American workers and actually paid their taxes. Today many corporations pay little or no taxes and they long ago broke the unions and shipped all the jobs overseas. The richest citizens are taxed at less than 50% (and they still bitch) The wealth gap continues to widen and the only reason it doesn't look as bad as it actually is is because people have more access to credit than they did in the past. But all that does is delay the inevitable.

Today's GOP wants to defund the government so that it can't do anything and what money it does get goes to the military at the expense of nearly every other program. The empire is in decline and like all empires before the same fate will befall the US. It's only a matter of how long it's going to take. I fear that we will live long enough to witness the end.

Better brush up on your cantonese.
 
One robber in the hospital listed in critical condition might have something to do with it, I dunno.

Poor store owner better hope the robber doesn't croak he'll be more ****ed then.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
The stimulus wouldn't have been too small had the big banks not decided to use the money to pay out their executive bonuses. Obama should have let them all fail or, at the very least, have mandated government oversight into how the stimulus money was used. Frankly I don't know why the government should care whether some big multinational fails or not. In reality, these companies are only marginally "American" anyway. All the jobs were outsourced to China a long time ago and, in the end, that is what will be the death of the US: the fact that they no longer manufacture a damn thing anymore. It's all done in China and China isn't under US control. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Back in the 50's when America was enjoying the greatest period of prosperity in its history, the richest citizens were taxed at a rate of 91% and 1/3 of the overall workforce was unionized. Corporations employed American workers and actually paid their taxes. Today many corporations pay little or no taxes and they long ago broke the unions and shipped all the jobs overseas. The richest citizens are taxed at less than 50% (and they still bitch) The wealth gap continues to widen and the only reason it doesn't look as bad as it actually is is because people have more access to credit than they did in the past. But all that does is delay the inevitable.

Today's GOP wants to defund the government so that it can't do anything and what money it does get goes to the military at the expense of nearly every other program. The empire is in decline and like all empires before the same fate will befall the US. It's only a matter of how long it's going to take. I fear that we will live long enough to witness the end.

Better brush up on your cantonese.
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You might be confusing the 2009 US stimulus package with the TARP bailout from the previous year. I believe either most or all of it has been repaid to the US gov't by now.
 
northernlou said:
You might be confusing the 2009 US stimulus package with the TARP bailout from the previous year. I believe either most or all of it has been repaid to the US gov't by now.
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Yes, indeed.

But my point is still valid. These corporations that caused the market meltdown and which opposed regulation of any kind never paid a price for their cynical, profit uber alles business practices. Their minions in the GOP preach about self-reliance and "there's no such thing as a free lunch" but when they mess up they go to Capitol Hill not so much with their hands held out but more with a gun pressed to the government's head saying "you need to give us this money right now or the entire country is going down the tubes". This was the moment when the government finally had them by the balls. They could have imposed regulations to ensure that these corporate asshats couldn't continue playing the stock market like it was a casino. But no, they just signed the cheque with no strings attached which is why the executive bonuses were never discontinued.
 
You conveniently forget that the Dems and candidate Obama backed TARP to the hilt, urging Bush to do it. In fact only 20 House republicans voted 'yea' to TARP plus 30 Pub Senators. And there was no free lunch as it was repaid with interest. The 2009 stimulus mind you, that does not get repaid. Furthermore, the near $1 trillion stimulus (much of it going to unions) has been added to the US budget for perpetuity. You can thank the wonders of deceptive baseline budget practices for that one.
 
from 2008

*********************************​

Bailout is law
President Bush signs historic $700 billion plan aimed at stemming credit crisis.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- After two weeks of contentious and often emotional debate, the federal government's far-reaching and historic plan to bail out the nation's financial system was signed into law by President Bush on Friday afternoon.

"By coming together on this legislation, we have acted boldly to prevent the crisis on Wall Street from becoming a crisis in communities across our country," Bush said less than an hour after the House voted 263 to 171 to pass the bill.

The House vote followed a strong lobbying push by the White House and other supporters of the bill. The House rejected a similar measure on Monday - a defeat that shocked the markets and congressional leaders on both sides of the aisle

According to voting results, 172 Democrats voted in favor of the bill while 62 opposed it; and 91 Republicans voted for it and 108 voted against it.

"We did today what we had to do because past mistakes made it necessary," said Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., one of the lead negotiators on the bill.
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http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/03/news/economy/house_friday_bailout/index.htm?postversion=2008100309

House Rejects Bailout Package, 228-205; Stocks Plunge
 
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What it proves is that big business was able to twist enough arms with their doomsday scenario to get what they wanted without sanctions. Wall Street today operates with the same wild west abandon that got them into trouble last time, which only ensures that there will be a next time. They should have let them all go down in flames. Either that or some CEO's should have gone to jail.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
What it proves is that big business was able to twist enough arms with their doomsday scenario to get what they wanted without sanctions. Wall Street today operates with the same wild west abandon that got them into trouble last time, which only ensures that there will be a next time. They should have let them all go down in flames. Either that or some CEO's should have gone to jail.
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Not big business (regular corporations) as much as Wall Street & the big banks/investment funds - they control the world. Much like JP Morgan, Rockefeller, and Carnegie teamed up to elect "their President" McKinley in 1896 over Bryan who wanted to impose taxes on the uber wealthy...
 
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WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
What it proves is that big business was able to twist enough arms with their doomsday scenario to get what they wanted without sanctions. Wall Street today operates with the same wild west abandon that got them into trouble last time, which only ensures that there will be a next time. They should have let them all go down in flames. Either that or some CEO's should have gone to jail.
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No President will have the nuts to jail all these precks because its all one big happy family , with Wall Street and Big Pharma dishing out big coin for election campaigns and other fund raisers , and with many in politics having close ties with the corruption how does the President cut the balls off the dudes who feed him . How can he nail Jamie Dimon when his own assets are probably tied to the banks investment dealings. With huge compensation payments at Wall Street comes big tax dollars generated , its simply too fooken big and too corrupt to contain.
 
TARP was necessary.

Stimulus was too small, and not properly structure. Should have focused on additional payroll tax deductions and way more infrastructure spending. Could of had 30 bond rates of 3.5% in February of 2009, and they dropped below 3% in 2013. That would have been the right time to use debt instruments and improve infrastructure and keep a lot of people employed, off EI, and perhaps avoiding bankruptcy.
 
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