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OT: The News Thread

Updates on the shooter:
-his bro was part of a gang
-the gun was in illegally from the US (still tracking down the source)
-ISIS wants to claim credit, but no proof of that
-the shooter has been picked up multiple times by police under the mental health act

So, yeah, gangs and mental health. Great combo.
 
https://www.blogto.com/city/2018/07/gun-violence-in-toronto-ban/

Toronto city council is taking some heavy and decisive steps to address gun violence city-wide in the wake of a mass shooting on the Danforth Sunday night.

One of these steps involves asking the federal government to ban handgun sales in Toronto. Another will see council request Ontario ban the sale of ammunition locally.

Councillors voted 41-4 in favour of these specific measures during a marathon meeting at City Hall on Tuesday evening, but the marquee agenda item they fell under — a set of proposals called "Immediate Steps to Address Gun Violence" — carried unanimously with a vote of 45-0.

The sweeping gun control motion was unveiled well-ahead of the shooting in Toronto's Greektown neighbourhood on Sunday, but was amended to include some additional requests in recent days (such as one that would ensure local trauma recovery programs include culturally-appropriate resources).
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They do realize that won’t do one thing towards the illegal handguns there. Joke. Just trying to do something so the misinformed thing action is being taken.
 
HabsFan1 said:
They do realize that won’t do one thing towards the illegal handguns there. Joke. Just trying to do something so the misinformed thing action is being taken.
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I don’t quite agree. Sure, the black market will always exist and that’s how this junk winds up in Canada. But measures like this are about creating a narrative that rejects the hyperbolic and toxic gun culture that exists in the US.

Gun ownership is a privilege for people who know how to stay safe and keep others safe. Farmers, hunters, etc. That’s fine. But it’s also fine to say that tooling around with Glock in an urban setting is way out of bounds. It’s not normal and it’s not clear to me why it’s a right.

It’s important to drive that message home to limit the spread of “normalization” of a fatalistic gun culture that is often based on fear, racism and male validation.

Handguns are meant to kill people, and they’re not OK. I think it’s OK to reinforce that point on a regular basis.
 
lecoqsportif said:
I don’t quite agree. Sure, the black market will always exist and that’s how this junk winds up in Canada. But measures like this are about creating a narrative that rejects the hyperbolic and toxic gun culture that exists in the US.

Gun ownership is a privilege for people who know how to stay safe and keep others safe. Farmers, hunters, etc. That’s fine. But it’s also fine to say that tooling around with Glock in an urban setting is way out of bounds. It’s not normal and it’s not clear to me why it’s a right.

It’s important to drive that message home to limit the spread of “normalization” of a fatalistic gun culture that is often based on fear, racism and male validation.

Handguns are meant to kill people, and they’re not OK. I think it’s OK to reinforce that point on a regular basis.
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+1

The reason handguns exist is to kill other humans and because they're easy to carry/conceal. There is literally no other reason that they exist. So I don't really have any issue with any attempt to reduce the number that exist in the hands of private citizens, especially in large cities.

And you don't throw your hands up and just give up because the United States' idiotic policy on firearms leaks over our border to some degree.
 
Ok so by that theory we have a drug problem in large cities. How about we ban all drugs in large cities. Oh wait it is illegal.

I don’t think you guys realize this will no cut down on any of the numbers they want to cut down on. This is just playing to the audience that we are doing SOMETHING, even tho it will have 0 net impact. Do you think these guys go into a cabelas to buy ammo? Or a handgun?
 
HabsFan1 said:
Ok so by that theory we have a drug problem in large cities. How about we ban all drugs in large cities. Oh wait it is illegal.

I don’t think you guys realize this will no cut down on any of the numbers they want to cut down on. This is just playing to the audience that we are doing SOMETHING, even tho it will have 0 net impact. Do you think these guys go into a cabelas to buy ammo? Or a handgun?
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I have a question...why can pro gun people not resist the urge to make poor analogies? Guns aren't like drugs. They're not like motorcycles, or cars, etc, etc, etc. I appreciate that analogy is one of the easiest ways to discuss a complex problem, but guns are unlike anything else in modern society.

They need to be discussed entirely on their own merits, because there simply isn't anything like them in modern society.
 
MindzEye said:
I have a question...why can pro gun people not resist the urge to make poor analogies? Guns aren't like drugs. They're not like motorcycles, or cars, etc, etc, etc. I appreciate that analogy is one of the easiest ways to discuss a complex problem, but guns are unlike anything else in modern society.

They need to be discussed entirely on their own merits, because there simply isn't anything like them in modern society.
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well, except for hilary's emails.
 
If anyone comes up with a way to make anything in this world "impossible to get", I'm all ears.

Until then, we'll all just have to do the best that we can.
 
LeafGm said:
If anyone comes up with a way to make anything in this world "impossible to get", I'm all ears.

Until then, we'll all just have to do the best that we can.
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A solid gold bar out of a container that has a hole it, the size of the gold bar, using only one hand.
Also, getting the ex wife to wait for a month on the cheque. IMPOSSIBLE
 
HabsFan1 said:
Just trying to make the point that just because something is illegal doesn’t make it impossible to get.
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Creating negative incentive (through culture, regulation, etc) isn't about making it impossible. It's about making it harder, more expensive, more risky, etc to get.
 
MindzEye said:
Creating negative incentive (through culture, regulation, etc) isn't about making it impossible. It's about making it harder, more expensive, more risky, etc to get.
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I don’t think it will make it much more expensive in my mind. Or risky as they are already using illegal guns so risk would be the same. Harder? Illegal guns are coming in currently so again I don’t see how this makes it harder.

The ammo part maybe someone with a license is buying ammo for gangs. MAYBE. But they will just get it elsewhere at that point. As I said I’m for making it tougher, but I think you need to start with stopping the shipments coming from the US first and foremost as this is the largest source.
 
What is it about guns that makes their owners so crazy? It's like once someone becomes a gun owner, all logic flies out the window. Don't **** with my gunz!!!
 
Deckie007 said:
What is it about guns that makes their owners so crazy? It's like once someone becomes a gun owner, all logic flies out the window. Don't **** with my gunz!!!
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That's a pretty broad statement. I would bet that most gun owners are sane, responsible people.
 
HabsFan1 said:
I don’t think it will make it much more expensive in my mind.
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Every bit helps. That's the point. There is no silver bullet solution, just incremental improvement towards significant reduction in harm.

Or risky as they are already using illegal guns so risk would be the same. Harder? Illegal guns are coming in currently so again I don’t see how this makes it harder.
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The fewer lost/stolen guns that make it into circulation on the streets, the higher the price for those smuggled guns. Or at the minimum, the higher the demand for the smuggling to increase which allows assets to be focused on the smuggling supply channel rather than investigating and tracking down lost/stolens

The ammo part maybe someone with a license is buying ammo for gangs. MAYBE. But they will just get it elsewhere at that point. As I said I’m for making it tougher, but I think you need to start with stopping the shipments coming from the US first and foremost as this is the largest source.
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I don't think you have to "start" with stopping shipments at all. You start the lowest hanging fruit, the easiest combination of assets utilized for effective gain. With the massive flow of goods between the US & Canada, it's obviously a massive challenge to identify and co opt small shipments of illegal weapons. It takes a pretty significant amount of police assets to investigate the groups who are bringing these weapons into Canada and stop the shipments. It takes very little to add to existing legislation.
 
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