• Moderators, please send me a PM if you are unable to access mod permissions. Thanks, Habsy.

OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

I've liked seeing him starting to make some nice passes OUT of traffic after he barged his way in instead of forcing up shots, that's for sure.

And yeah it's kind of nuts how both he and quickley have fit in so seamlessly both as big parts of the system. a) Darko must be running a pretty good system after all and b) both of them must be pretty quick studies.

raps have a top-5 offensive rating since the trade, after being 17th prior.


Pre-Trade (32gms):

114.0 Off Rating (#17)
115.2 Def Rating (#15)
-1.1 Net Rating (#22)

124.0 Off Rating (#5)
122.0 Def Rating (#24)
+2.0 Net Rating (#14)

Defense has taken a hit unsurprisingly, but this has been a 6gm stretch against some pretty talented offensive teams, and we've been missing key guys.
 
zeke said:
we've been missing key guys.
Click to expand...

1627751.png
 
Sure, but that's as much as the fact that we've been forced to play non-rotation caliber guys in his absence.

The three guys with a def rating worse than the team total over these 6gms - Thadd 128.9, Jalen 132.7, Jontay 133.6.

God bless Thadd for his efforts, but he shouldn't be anywhere in a rotation let alone starting. And Jontay looks interesting, but he's got zero experience. And the less said about Jalen the better.
 
zeke said:
Sure, but that's as much as the fact that we've been forced to play non-rotation caliber guys in his absence.

The three guys with a def rating worse than the team total over these 6gms - Thadd 128.9, Jalen 132.7, Jontay 133.6.

God bless Thadd for his efforts, but he shouldn't be anywhere in a rotation let alone starting. And Jontay looks interesting, but he's got zero experience. And the less said about Jalen the better.
Click to expand...

You could also just admit that Jake is pretty okay defensively and that the two guys we're using to cover his loss are okay back of the rotation options but aren't enough to make up for his loss because he's pretty okay and makes an overall positive impact on winning.
 
MindzEye said:
You could also just admit that Jake is pretty okay defensively and that the two guys we're using to cover his loss are okay back of the rotation options but aren't enough to make up for his loss because he's pretty okay and makes an overall positive impact on winning.
Click to expand...

Jake is solid defensively and is a solid rotation player.
 
MindzEye said:
You could also just admit that Jake is pretty okay defensively and that the two guys we're using to cover his loss are okay back of the rotation options but aren't enough to make up for his loss because he's pretty okay and makes an overall positive impact on winning.
Click to expand...
never!


(says zeke)
 
Fwiw....I've spent a bit more time with Indiana prospects stats and video this week, also helped by catching some stuff from Walker's 5 G League games recently.

The knock on Walker has largely been surrounding his shooting, ball handling skills, etc. It was hard to picture him as a top 2-3 guy in your offence. He was considered a plus athlete, but he was a plus athlete the way OG was imo. Big and sturdy, good (not great) 2 foot jumper, good but not great lateral movement.

But....in 5 G League games he's shooting 50% from 3 in high ass volume, 85% from FT so that kind of suggests someone has fixed his stroke (was a 66% FT shooter in college). The handles still look soft but he's showing some mid range iso stuff that is interesting, some dribble iso 3 stuff

Jalen Smith I like, but don't know if he'll ever be a good starter at the C. Bit weak defensively, but can stretch the floor and has some skill around the basket. Would actually be a nice tandem mate with Jake. Does the things Jake doesn't do (shoot, iso work in the post). Jake does the things he doesn't do well (P/R, defend, rim protection). Would be a good mix and match situation for Darko.

Dunno if 5 G League games is enough to know whether Walker has impact starter upside, or if Jalen Smith can figure out the defensive side of the ball. If we're intent on not paying Pascal though, this could be a decent high risk/high reward package.
 
zeke said:
All i see is poo poo platters.
Click to expand...

Fwiw, I think you're over valuing Pascal.

The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of Pascal at 50 million moving forward. He's a nice player, but I think we just burnt his "cheap" prime on a poorly done long bois experiment around Pascal, Fred, & OG but it's probably time to cash in before we're looking at 32 yr old 50 million dollar pascal being why we don't have cap space to add another player to an emerging contender.

Fwiw, EPM has him as the 61st most valuable player in the league at 2.1. Granted, he's been at 3.3 since the trade so even if we call that his true level that's still only 30-35th most valuable. This is with a major resurgence in his TS% as well.

BPM, likewise has him at ~60th this season at 1.4.

I'm not sure that this hasn't turned into a "Demar" type situation where we're going to be limited with him making max money and getting 16-18 shots a night for the next bunch of years.
 
MindzEye said:
Fwiw, I think you're over valuing Pascal.

The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of Pascal at 50 million moving forward. He's a nice player, but I think we just burnt his "cheap" prime on a poorly done long bois experiment around Pascal, Fred, & OG but it's probably time to cash in before we're looking at 32 yr old 50 million dollar pascal being why we don't have cap space to add another player to an emerging contender.

Fwiw, EPM has him as the 61st most valuable player in the league at 2.1. Granted, he's been at 3.3 since the trade so even if we call that his true level that's still only 30-35th most valuable. This is with a major resurgence in his TS% as well.

BPM, likewise has him at ~60th this season at 1.4.

I'm not sure that this hasn't turned into a "Demar" type situation where we're going to be limited with him making max money and getting 16-18 shots a night for the next bunch of years.
Click to expand...
And if its true he's being very restrictive in where he wants to extend i think the return might need to be lighter than we think. He apparantly doesn't want to extend with Sac, which tracks with them backing out more than not wanting to move Murray ( this tracks too)

If Murray and Johnson are out. I think Indiana stuff and Golden State stuff are close. Still cant understand why Dallas is mentioned.
 
MindzEye said:
Fwiw, I think you're over valuing Pascal.

The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of Pascal at 50 million moving forward. He's a nice player, but I think we just burnt his "cheap" prime on a poorly done long bois experiment around Pascal, Fred, & OG but it's probably time to cash in before we're looking at 32 yr old 50 million dollar pascal being why we don't have cap space to add another player to an emerging contender.

Fwiw, EPM has him as the 61st most valuable player in the league at 2.1. Granted, he's been at 3.3 since the trade so even if we call that his true level that's still only 30-35th most valuable. This is with a major resurgence in his TS% as well.

BPM, likewise has him at ~60th this season at 1.4.

I'm not sure that this hasn't turned into a "Demar" type situation where we're going to be limited with him making max money and getting 16-18 shots a night for the next bunch of years.
Click to expand...

1. can it ever be a 'long bois' experiment of it's built around the shortest player in the league? our new lineup is closer to a longboi lineup than our old one.

2. I'm confident that the recent trend is the real Siakam. It's been a fucked up time in raptorville the last couple years. Everybody looks better now. OG looks better now in NY too.

3. I don't really see the cap worry. RJ is signed thru most of Siakam's deal. We know what IQ and Scottie are going to get thru siakam's deal. We're allowed to go over when re-signing our own players so Siakam's caphit isn't actually as big as a smaller contract for a replacement would be.

4. I'd wager Pascal has more value with a contract than he does as a free agent anyways. And i'd wager he looks better as a player with the current squad going forward than he does at the moment, which also increases his value.

5. The deal would end at age 33 even if we never trade him. That's not reall old. We see as old and older players than that in every contender's rotation at the moment.
 
zeke said:
1. can it ever be a 'long bois' experiment of it's built around the shortest player in the league? our new lineup is closer to a longboi lineup than our old one.
Click to expand...

Eh? It was Fred and 4 guys who were all 6'8. Short PG, but no centre. Now it's Dennis/Quickley, 3 long switchable wings, and a centre that you dislike. The front office very clearly told us what they were trying to do at the time.

zeke said:
2. I'm confident that the recent trend is the real Siakam. It's been a fucked up time in raptorville the last couple years. Everybody looks better now. OG looks better now in NY too.
Click to expand...

Maybe. But this is Pascal's last 5 seasons

EPM
19/20: 2.3
20/21: 1.5
21/22: 2.2
22/23: 2.3
23/24: 2.1

It would be nice if he was back to peak championship Pascal, but it's more likely that this season in it's entirety is what he is, rather than just the few games after the trade.

zeke said:
3. I don't really see the cap worry. RJ is signed thru most of Siakam's deal. We know what IQ and Scottie are going to get thru siakam's deal. We're allowed to go over when re-signing our own players so Siakam's caphit isn't actually as big as a smaller contract for a replacement would be.
Click to expand...

The cap worry isn't now, it's about a year and a half from now, yeah. The issue to me is if Pascal is just a ~2bpm guy, it's going to be really tough to add to that group if they're missing a piece.

zeke said:
4. I'd wager Pascal has more value with a contract than he does as a free agent anyways. And i'd wager he looks better as a player with the current squad going forward than he does at the moment, which also increases his value.
Click to expand...

Eh, at 45-50 million I don't know if that tracks. Pascal gets awfully Zach Lavine-ish at those numbers if he takes even a small dip in productivity. I don't know if almost 32 yr old Pascal at 47-48 million gets the type of packages I'm seeing discussed for him now (even if we're just talking GSW & Indiana)
zeke said:
5. The deal would end at age 33 even if we never trade him. That's not reall old. We see as old and older players than that in every contender's rotation at the moment.
Click to expand...

"rotation" is kind of a big word there though. We're talking about signing him to top 10 money in the league (he's 21st now fwiw). We absolutely need him to be a really, really good starter to justify that. 2nd best player on a contender type stuff and I just don't know if that's there.
 
It’s too bad the Knicks didn’t give us Barrett + Quickley for Siakam instead. OG is kinda the piece we’re missing now.

If you squint I suppose you can see a path where Jarace Walker has an OG level upside. Maybe a bit more offensively, probably less defensively. Likely waiting another year or 2 before he comes into his own and can contribute.

I still would prefer Keegan as I like that shot making ability.

How would you rank the 3 most rumored center pieces; Kuminga, Keegan, Walker. All are high draft picks. All are that SF/PF type.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top