OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread
- Thread starter hockeylover
- Start date
axlsalinger
Well-known member
Pretty nice young man. It's always cool seeing people like this succeed.
View: https://youtu.be/DwLz8Q03rF8?si=H53UfdFhkTOBwx4U
View: https://youtu.be/DwLz8Q03rF8?si=H53UfdFhkTOBwx4U
zeke
Well-known member
Ah fuck it. Trade schroder. Trade siakam. Trade Poeltl. Fuck them all.
View: https://x.com/theScoreBet/status/1747275612988039621?s=20
View: https://x.com/theScoreBet/status/1747275612988039621?s=20
zeke
Well-known member
so is this year's draft supposed to suck or just be ok.
because we have the 6th worst record now and a Siakam trade (+ schroder? poeltl?) could sink us even lower - and the 1st we traded for Poeltl is top-6 protected - though cracking the bottom 5 will be tough.
but we're gonna end up with the 7th overall pick won't we.
because we have the 6th worst record now and a Siakam trade (+ schroder? poeltl?) could sink us even lower - and the 1st we traded for Poeltl is top-6 protected - though cracking the bottom 5 will be tough.
but we're gonna end up with the 7th overall pick won't we.
axlsalinger
Well-known member
I can't see that lasting. Several factors contributed to losses this past week (in addition to tough road trip) like unimaginably bad reffing in one game, and unsustainably bad 3-point shooting in the last one. The team is still much better since the trade and will win more games going forward.
Wayward DP
Well-known member
nah that would be the Leafy outcome. and the Raps are many things, but they ain't that Leafy.
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
7-9 yeah.
Dont worry though, we'll be picking somehwhere in the 22-28 range for a pick we get from Siakam, then even more picks when we trade down to 33 to take the unknown lanky fuck we would have taken at 25 anyways
Dont worry though, we'll be picking somehwhere in the 22-28 range for a pick we get from Siakam, then even more picks when we trade down to 33 to take the unknown lanky fuck we would have taken at 25 anyways
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Also, a shit ton of teams are piled up in the 6-15th range. We're one rando heater away from drafting 15th.
Also also....I'm not convinced that a Pascal trade will make us worse, depending on what comes back and what other moves are made at the deadline.
I mean...say for example that GSW ends up blowing their brains out for him as one of their moves to try to salvage Steph's twilight prime, and we end up with Wiggins, Kuminga, Moody and picks. A Wiggins return to form + Kuminga & Moody replacing Trent and McDaniels in our rotation actually makes us better now imo. As I've gone over a few times, Pascal is a good player but only really a good one that is miscast as a #1 scoring option.
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
Why is it that you for the most part are a rational, all be it grumpy man, that usually errs on the side of negative, when assessing a situation, to be safe and not look like a rainbow munching homer but with this raptor team you get blind with fancypants optimism?
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
To answer the question re: this draft....
It's kind of junky...I haven't spent a ton of time wrapping my head around it yet, but here's my early takes on the early lottery
1) Alex Sarr - Can't teach 7'1 and wingspan I guess. Kind of reminds me of a longer Miles Turner maybe. There's some physical projection there though (also known on scouting reports as "raw"). I've seen Mobley comps as well and yeah I probably buy that though Mobley had a higher level of defensive IQ coming into the league imo. Sarr looks like he's getting away with flat out chasing help side block opportunities, which looks great on highlight films, but is a dump off pass to an open dunk a lot of the times in the NBA. Currently doesn't have a projectable offensive arsenal at the NBA level, but something something raw so who knows.
2) Topic - Tell me if you've heard this before....young Euro guard who is crafty in 1-1 situations, gets downhill on the drive more or less at will against Euro competition with great scoring touch around the basket and legit PG passing chops, but lacks explosiveness and doesn't play above the rim. This one is 6'6 instead of 6'8 and currently can't shoot though. Also doesn't have Luka's euroleague pedigree fwiw. I keep seeing Luka and Shai comparisons, but I don't see the mid range and 3pt shooting game that either of those two have/had. A bit wild in his passing, and I don't think that flies in the NBA with all the athletes around on defence, also don't think his 70% shooting at the rim carries over with his okay but just okay size and lack of athleticism. But tbh, I had similar questions about Luka at the time.
3) Rischarer - Yeah, another foreign prospect. Looks like at worst a plug and play 3&D prospect. Think a more athletic Keegan Murray/OG or Michael Porter Jr while eating a baguette . Definitely a 2nd-3rd offensive option and not a primary type scorer but could be a super elite 3rd option type on a contender. He's kind of tailor made for what we (and most of the league) want in a starting wing.
4) Cody Williams - Looks pretty Pascal-ish to me, does more offensively than someone like Rischarer but shifty rather than fluid and explosive. Not really a playmaker though, which limits him as a top 2 offensive option imo. Going to have to get a lot bigger and stronger to beat NBA wings with his bag, so yeah, think Pascal's type of arc where it's going to take a few years of finding himself a bench role. Maybe has corner spot up 3's in his bag, maybe. So I kind of like his ceiling better than Rischarer's, but his floor is a bit scary at this draft slot. Discount Brandon Ingram, or Jerami Grant isn't exactly inspiring
5) Ja'kobe Walter - The first real professional shooter likely to be taken but it's almost all off ball. Very "Buddy Hield-ish". Can get to the rim against aggressive close outs, has some passing chops, and has enough handles to imagine a mid range bag developing. Is quick-twitchy. Can defend, but is more of a team defender but will probably get dummied in switches onto high level scorers (which at 6'5 180, he's going to have to be a point of attack defender at some point) so the offence is going to have to play up enough to live with him getting hunted defensively. Dunno if this is who you want if you're looking to compete for the playoffs now, it's more of a swing at Anfernee Simons type offensive upside that is going to take 3-4-5 years to arrive.
6) Ron Holland - Speaking of waiting 5 years to arrive, meet Ron Holland. 18 yr old, plus athlete, super raw. This year's Coulibaly type prospect who currently can't shoot but has all of the tools to turn into an all star. Probably the highest upside available in the top 10, probably the most likely to be out of the league at 26 yrs old because he's a 25% 3pt shooting wing. For this type of profile, I dunno if he's quick twitchy/explosive enough an athlete for me. He's more of a transition gazelle/1 foot leaper type guy than the explosive Westbrook, Morant type. Think Scottie, if Scottie was 6'6 and didn't have PG skills, but had more projectable shooting form & footwork? I might regret saying this if he's an obsessively hard worker, but meh....
Honestly, of everyone in the lottery, the only guy I'm "afraid" of us missing out on with our pick is Rob Dillingham. Who gives me Kemba Walker vibes on the high end but is probably more Terry Rozier than Kemba Walker
It's kind of junky...I haven't spent a ton of time wrapping my head around it yet, but here's my early takes on the early lottery
1) Alex Sarr - Can't teach 7'1 and wingspan I guess. Kind of reminds me of a longer Miles Turner maybe. There's some physical projection there though (also known on scouting reports as "raw"). I've seen Mobley comps as well and yeah I probably buy that though Mobley had a higher level of defensive IQ coming into the league imo. Sarr looks like he's getting away with flat out chasing help side block opportunities, which looks great on highlight films, but is a dump off pass to an open dunk a lot of the times in the NBA. Currently doesn't have a projectable offensive arsenal at the NBA level, but something something raw so who knows.
2) Topic - Tell me if you've heard this before....young Euro guard who is crafty in 1-1 situations, gets downhill on the drive more or less at will against Euro competition with great scoring touch around the basket and legit PG passing chops, but lacks explosiveness and doesn't play above the rim. This one is 6'6 instead of 6'8 and currently can't shoot though. Also doesn't have Luka's euroleague pedigree fwiw. I keep seeing Luka and Shai comparisons, but I don't see the mid range and 3pt shooting game that either of those two have/had. A bit wild in his passing, and I don't think that flies in the NBA with all the athletes around on defence, also don't think his 70% shooting at the rim carries over with his okay but just okay size and lack of athleticism. But tbh, I had similar questions about Luka at the time.
3) Rischarer - Yeah, another foreign prospect. Looks like at worst a plug and play 3&D prospect. Think a more athletic Keegan Murray/OG or Michael Porter Jr while eating a baguette . Definitely a 2nd-3rd offensive option and not a primary type scorer but could be a super elite 3rd option type on a contender. He's kind of tailor made for what we (and most of the league) want in a starting wing.
4) Cody Williams - Looks pretty Pascal-ish to me, does more offensively than someone like Rischarer but shifty rather than fluid and explosive. Not really a playmaker though, which limits him as a top 2 offensive option imo. Going to have to get a lot bigger and stronger to beat NBA wings with his bag, so yeah, think Pascal's type of arc where it's going to take a few years of finding himself a bench role. Maybe has corner spot up 3's in his bag, maybe. So I kind of like his ceiling better than Rischarer's, but his floor is a bit scary at this draft slot. Discount Brandon Ingram, or Jerami Grant isn't exactly inspiring
5) Ja'kobe Walter - The first real professional shooter likely to be taken but it's almost all off ball. Very "Buddy Hield-ish". Can get to the rim against aggressive close outs, has some passing chops, and has enough handles to imagine a mid range bag developing. Is quick-twitchy. Can defend, but is more of a team defender but will probably get dummied in switches onto high level scorers (which at 6'5 180, he's going to have to be a point of attack defender at some point) so the offence is going to have to play up enough to live with him getting hunted defensively. Dunno if this is who you want if you're looking to compete for the playoffs now, it's more of a swing at Anfernee Simons type offensive upside that is going to take 3-4-5 years to arrive.
6) Ron Holland - Speaking of waiting 5 years to arrive, meet Ron Holland. 18 yr old, plus athlete, super raw. This year's Coulibaly type prospect who currently can't shoot but has all of the tools to turn into an all star. Probably the highest upside available in the top 10, probably the most likely to be out of the league at 26 yrs old because he's a 25% 3pt shooting wing. For this type of profile, I dunno if he's quick twitchy/explosive enough an athlete for me. He's more of a transition gazelle/1 foot leaper type guy than the explosive Westbrook, Morant type. Think Scottie, if Scottie was 6'6 and didn't have PG skills, but had more projectable shooting form & footwork? I might regret saying this if he's an obsessively hard worker, but meh....
Honestly, of everyone in the lottery, the only guy I'm "afraid" of us missing out on with our pick is Rob Dillingham. Who gives me Kemba Walker vibes on the high end but is probably more Terry Rozier than Kemba Walker
zeke
Well-known member
Post-Trade Rotation Update:
Barnes: 8gms, 34.7min, 21.6usg%, 53.7ts% --- Per36: 17.2pts, 5.1ast/2.5to, 5.2rb (0.8off), 0.8st, 1.4bk
Siakam: 7gms, 33.8min, 22.6usg%, 68.6ts% --- Per36: 24.8pts, 4.0ast/1.5to, 5.3rb (0.8off), 0.8st, 0.6bk
Barrett: 8gms, 33.0min, 22.5usg%, 65.3ts% ---- Per36: 21.7pts, 3.7ast/2.3to, 7.8rb (0.8off), 0.7st, 0.5bk
Quickley: 8gms, 31.1min, 23.5usg%, 57.8ts% -- Per36: 21.9pts, 5.8ast/1.0to, 5.4rb (0.4off), 0.7st, 0.3bk
Poeltl: 4gms, 31.0min, 16.6usg%, 61.2ts% ----- Per36: 14.2pts, 3.8ast/2.9to, 10.5rb (3.2off), 0.3st, 3.2bk
Schroder: 8gms, 29.7min, 17.2usg%, 66.3ts% -- Per36: 17.6pts, 5.5ast/1.2to, 3.8rb (0.3off), 0.3st, 0.2bk
Trent Jr: 6gms, 23.9min, 16.3usg%, 56.9ts% --- Per36: 14.8pts, 2.0ast/0.8to, 3.3rb (1.0off), 1.0st, 0.3bk
J.Porter: 7gms, 15.3min, 15.7usg%, 47.4ts% ---- Per36: 10.8pts, 5.7ast/1.7to, 8.4rb (2.7off), 1.3st, 1.7bk
Boucher: 8gms, 14.9min, 15.3usg%, 66.4ts% --- Per36: 15.4pts, 1.5ast/1.5to, 11.1rb (2.7off), 1.2st, 0.6bk
Young: 6gms, 14.4min, 12.1usg%, 50.0ts% ----- Per36: 8.7pts, 6.7ast/1.2to, 6.2rb (2.1off), 2.9st, 0.4bk
Barnes: 8gms, 34.7min, 21.6usg%, 53.7ts% --- Per36: 17.2pts, 5.1ast/2.5to, 5.2rb (0.8off), 0.8st, 1.4bk
Siakam: 7gms, 33.8min, 22.6usg%, 68.6ts% --- Per36: 24.8pts, 4.0ast/1.5to, 5.3rb (0.8off), 0.8st, 0.6bk
Barrett: 8gms, 33.0min, 22.5usg%, 65.3ts% ---- Per36: 21.7pts, 3.7ast/2.3to, 7.8rb (0.8off), 0.7st, 0.5bk
Quickley: 8gms, 31.1min, 23.5usg%, 57.8ts% -- Per36: 21.9pts, 5.8ast/1.0to, 5.4rb (0.4off), 0.7st, 0.3bk
Poeltl: 4gms, 31.0min, 16.6usg%, 61.2ts% ----- Per36: 14.2pts, 3.8ast/2.9to, 10.5rb (3.2off), 0.3st, 3.2bk
Schroder: 8gms, 29.7min, 17.2usg%, 66.3ts% -- Per36: 17.6pts, 5.5ast/1.2to, 3.8rb (0.3off), 0.3st, 0.2bk
Trent Jr: 6gms, 23.9min, 16.3usg%, 56.9ts% --- Per36: 14.8pts, 2.0ast/0.8to, 3.3rb (1.0off), 1.0st, 0.3bk
J.Porter: 7gms, 15.3min, 15.7usg%, 47.4ts% ---- Per36: 10.8pts, 5.7ast/1.7to, 8.4rb (2.7off), 1.3st, 1.7bk
Boucher: 8gms, 14.9min, 15.3usg%, 66.4ts% --- Per36: 15.4pts, 1.5ast/1.5to, 11.1rb (2.7off), 1.2st, 0.6bk
Young: 6gms, 14.4min, 12.1usg%, 50.0ts% ----- Per36: 8.7pts, 6.7ast/1.2to, 6.2rb (2.1off), 2.9st, 0.4bk
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Because I don't think we're a lot of big moves away from being good enough to be competitive. I mean, I look at the conference and everyone other than Boston is either 1) not that good or 2) their best players are in mid to late prime. How long am I supposed to be worried about Giannis & Dame for? 2-3 more years? Sweet tooth, doesn't train, about to turn 30 yr old Embiid? 2-3 years? Cleveland being not that good with Spider already having half a foot out the door? Miami with Jimmy getting old in a hurry?
Who are the up and coming teams in the east? Indiana? Hali is very, scary good, but they need to develop 2-3 more players around him before they're scary. They have some kids who might fit the bill, but the fact that they're chasing Pascal Siakam level moves kind of limits the upside (but raises the floor) on their future imo. Orlando with no star?
At the root of it, Scottie Barnes is one of the best young players in the world. The hardest part about building a NBA team is having the top 2-3 guys to build around and we probably either have that in house now, or at the minimum now have the type of early prime NBA players to trade for them later. Let's say Quickley doesn't turn into the stat profile he's shown when Brunson was out and he was starting (25ppg on high efficiency), he's still going to raise his stock signing the extension we're expecting and getting 32+ mpg here. He's going to at minimum turn into the type of player you trade for a better lead guard when one is available in trade (think the next "Dame" situation...whoever that is) RJ has already repaired a huge chunk of his damaged reputation in just a few weeks away from the Knicks and is re establishing himself as a high level young player.
The optimism comes from this being a very, very fixable situation. Smart Pascal trade, good reshuffling of the cap space in the off season to address shooting and defensive issues in the rotation and all of a sudden this is a good and deep bunch in a hurry.
Need Jake back or losses keep piling back
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Yeah, would be nice if Koloko was healthy and we had a functioning backup big to sort out the defence, but we don't and on the flip side don't have enough bench shooting to make a small spacing centric lineup work consistently.